Disappointing/Misunderstood Sequels Pt 2

[Discoalucard]

Alright guys, I've started work on that disappointing/misunderstood sequels article I mentioned a month or two back. Basically, I have 9 games I currently wanted to focus on. But I wanted feedback from actual players so it's not just my voice talking. So, here are the games:

Final Fantasy 8
Deus Ex: Invisible War
Prince of Persia: Warrior Within
Knights of the Old Republic 2
Zelda 2
Devil May Cry 2
Chrono Cross
Doom 3
Metal Gear Solid 2

These were chosen because it's hard to get into a message board forum without some kind of long rants about how the games suck a whole bunch or whatever. (Except for DMC2, I'm on the fence about that, because it's the only game that didn't get positive critical response either, and not many defenders.)

Now! What I need from you guys are a few paragraphs and/or sentences (nothing extravagent) proclaiming about why above sequels did/did not suck. So anything positive or negative is good. Also, this is for 1up so if you've got one of those bloggie things, just post your username and if I select that comment, you'll get linked or whatnot.

In general, the idea of this article is to contrast some of the critic responses with fan responses, and try to explain the disparity between them a bit. Also to examine some of the reasons why the sequel failed/succeeded in the eyes of the public, as well as the expectations set upon it.

[MRSKELETON]

I'll do one about FF8

[bioniccommando83]

Final Fantasy VIII had one of the toughest bills ever to follow in gaming history, following in the footsteps of Final Fantasy VII. With its prequel being a poster child for 32 bit graphics, engaging storyline, characters, and gameplay, FF VIII was initially well received, and then later panned as being inferior to its predecessor. Sad, but true. Is it a lesser Final Fantasy though, or even a bad game? Hardly.

First off, to get it out of the way- FF VIII, after Parasite Eve, might be one of the most graphically appealing video games out there- the FMVs of course are splendid, but so are the design of the world, cities, and dungeons. The likes of Balamb Garden and Esthar are dare I say, fantastic settings? Add in with great direction in certain sequences- the dance, the assassination attempt, the Garden assault, and you have truly memorable moments based around them. The world itself seems richer- having more history and more identifiably unique elements (such as the moon and the Lunatic Pandora). The music is Uematsu to a core. While his work in FF VII and even FF VI may be more distinctive and memorable, the tunes are far from lacking in quality and are still leaps and bounds ahead of other games.

The game play is solid, though some criticism can be featured from the draw system. At the same time, it couples well with the game's leveled enemy system, denying enemies certain spells and avoiding power leveling. Battle is smooth and fast (unless you summon, I'll give detractors that...), and the variety and ease of limit breaks, while it can imbalance the game at times, gives it more variety than hitting the attack button constantly. Last, I would ask anyone to find an FF mini game that was more enjoyable and engrossing than Triple Triad.

The game makes up for shortcomings in plot with character development. The angsty Squall and Rinoa's romance is real with good amounts of game time being given to it. Add in the Laguna plotline, and you have a very rich tapestry. While having a sorceress with a speech impediment as the ultimate villain may be a let down, Edea, Seifer, and their flunkies give the heroes worthy opposition.

In terms of graphics, gameplay, and character and world development, FF VIII stands well in its own right, striking out from the shadows of FF VII. While not as rounded and complete a package its predecessor, it is still often maligned, unfairly, and not appreciated for being the beautiful, stand alone game that it is.

-Robert Greene

[MRSKELETON]

Devil may cry was the action game back when it was released.
Flawlessly combining some elements of horror and some of the best action gameplay in a videogame.
It's sequel...Didn't get so much attention.
Graphically Devil May Cry 2 has a more darker, brooding storyline and hero. Dante isn't the pretty boy from the first game anymore, he's a scarred and rugged demonslayer, The monster design is cool too.
(Mostly because it isn't the same enemies with different weapons like in the first) And seem more in place.

The action is just as frantic and fast paced in the second as it was in the first, Only helped with more linear level system.
Dante has more of an arsenal then he did in the first, while most of the swords aren't magic like the first, it features a new devil trigger system based on the collection and combination of various crystals.

The bossbattles are the high point of this game. Difficult and engaging, not to mention incredibly epic. A treck through a mostly ruined city turns into a battle with a monster tank, and finally rounded off with a battle between you and a giant demon building.

The game is a bit of a 2-pack. Two discs for two playable characters
Dante has his game and another character has her game.
It's nothing interesting either and fails to fill in any story or plot.
Just some new levels and abilities to play around with.

DMC2 Is a fun game, incredibly underrated because of it's focus on long range combat. The game isn't God of war, but it's funy for a quick play through (and i mean quick, this is a short game)
It's shortcoming is the length, some of the unispired levels
and it's less of a focus on plot and character development.

-Kojjiro (Which ironically is my 1up name)

[Discoalucard]

Oh, I should correct - paragraphs are cool too (gives me more to work with) but a few sentences is fine as well.

[Shinigami]

As a fan of Devil May Cry, I can think of many reasons why DMC2 was not well received by the fans. For me it all comes down to the enemies themselves. In DMC1 fighting most regular enemies was more like fighting a mid-boss. They had strengths and weakness, and patterns which could be learned. You couldn't just button mash your way to victory. You had to have your eyes and ears open to look for an opening and to react quickly. If you didn't you'd find yourself dead very quickly. The enemies in DMC2 had none of this. You could just sit in the same spot and keep shooting the enemies with the hand guns ( or later in the game the sub-machine gun) and push the enemies away until they died or another one came closer to you, making the other weapons, (shotgun, rocket launcher, swords) useless. This is because of the game's targeting system.

DMC1 had no real targeting system. And while it was annoying when fighting two Shadows (those black tigers) at once, for the most part it worked. In DMC2 they added a targeting system where Dante automatically targets the enemy closest to him. Now, if you're thinking, "if the game is too easy with the guns, why not just not use them entirely?" Well, that's because the game isn't that much harder with the swords either. In the default difficulty of this game (normal), you can walk up to the enemies and they won't attack you. So you can swing your sword with enemies all around you and they won't even put up any kind of resistance. It's not until you start playing in Hard mode that it finally feels like the enemies are fighting back, and to play in Hard mode you have to beat normal mode with both Dante and Lucia. And by the time you do that you may not want to touch the game again.

The problems don’t end there. Everyone who has played DMC1 probably remembers losing against the Phantom (spider boss) and thinking, “This guy’s the toughest boss I’ve ever seen”. Unfortunately, none of the bosses in DMC2 bring this kind of feeling. The first boss of DMC2 (monkey boss) is so easy he needs two regular enemies at all times to mask his weakness. Also, all the bosses in DMC1 were characters and had personalities of their own, even if they didn’t talk. In DMC2, Arius is the only boss that is a character and he’s not nearly as interesting as any of the DMC1 bosses. He’s just some guy who wants power, as if we haven’t seen one of those in the 30 or so years video games have been around.

Which brings me to my next point, the story. Devil May Cry is loosely ( and I mean loosely) based on the Divide Comedy. Dante is a mercenary/bounty hunter of sorts, he likes to kill demons even if he doesn’t get paid for it. Some girl with powers named Trish convinces him to fight against the demon king. He goes into Mallet Island to hunt some demons and on the way fights with his brother and Mundus, some demon with a grudge against Dante’s father for sealing him in the demon world. It is unclear how old Dante is, he could be 30, or he could be 2030. This is what we get from the game, not taking DMC3 or the recently released mangas into account. Now, what does any of this have to do with DMC2? Apparently nothing. DMC2 does not pick up where DMC1 left off, and the focus isn’t even on Dante. It’s on Lucia and how Arius created her, and his lust for power. Reading the story details from the instruction manual only talks about how the people in Dunny Island came from many different religious backgrounds and created a new religion with parts from all the other religions. This isn’t mentioned anywhere in game. And what the heck happened to Trish? The story avoids her completely, yet she appears as a secret character.

There are however, a couple good points of DMC2. The music manages to be on par with DMC1 (and might even be better than DMC3’s music). Instead of Masami Ueda, the music this time was made by Masoto Kohda, Tetsuya Shibata, and Satoshi Ise. They manage to provide the dark atmosphere and the rocking techno, even if the gameplay is lacking. Divinity Statue 2003, the staff roll, and the Mission Start theme are a few tracks that stand out to me. Also, some of the enemy designs were cool looking; I liked those skeletons inside cages, and the goat men.

There is one last thing I feel I should mention. Devil May Cry is a Capcom series, and if there is only thing Capcom is known for it’s sticking to the formula. If they make one good game, they pimp out another one just like it, and keep doing it as long as it keeps selling. For example: Resident Evil, Megaman, Street Fighter, Marvel vs Capcom. Why the decision was made to go in such a different direction I’ll never understand. The player complaints Capcom received from DMC2 caused them to increase the difficulty for DMC3 in the United States (which worked out well for me, I would have thrown a fit if Cerberus didn’t kill me at least ten times before I beat him) which made the fans happy, but pissed off many other players and reviewers who complained it was too hard.

Shinigami - I didn’t mean for this to be so long. I don’t have a 1UP account. I’m not a professional writer, so feel free to edit that as much as you like (assuming you’re going to use any of it).

[Brand]

Final Fantasy 8 loses on many levels main characters who are just annoying. Who thought it was a good idea to have the main character be just as much of a jerk ass as his "bad" rival? The female heron was a dope, more so then most others. But the game suffered on other levels, the draw system could get old. The Guardian Force junction system was to easy to abuse. But what killed it for me was just really bad menu interface. It was clunky, took to many screens to get what needed be done, and not very intuitive.

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Ah, Chrono Cross this is where I am a heretic. I personally prefer this game much more over the original. The original while and enjoyable game never really got me all that interested, while it may have had less characters I think most of them were not any more developed then the ones in Chrono Cross, and plot wise I didn't find it all that very exciting. While I won't say that Chrono Cross has an amazing plot (though it is enjoyable), I think what Chrono Cross has in spades is atmosphere. The music, the character designs, the setting, all come together to create something that just sucks you into another world unlike are own. To me it's something few games ever really achieve and it is this fact that makes me love this game and like it so much more then Chrono Trigger.

[kyouki]

Zelda 2-
Zelda 1 was difficult because you had no idea where to go and had to figure everything out on your own. Zelda 2 scaled this back a bit, but then ramped the difficulty up by making it actually hard to play.

However, Zelda 2 more than any of the other sequels carries the mysterious epic atmosphere of the original Legend of Zelda.

The storyline has Gannon's minions hunting Link so they can use his blood to revive their master. Zelda 2 is possibly the only game I've played where I actually feel hunted. It really makes the atmosphere of the game work- especially how all is quiet and peaceful until you step off of the safe roads and are immediately chased down by several groups of enemies. Some of the dialogue in towns helps maintain this atmosphere: one character remarks "The eyes of Gannon are everywhere." Proving that statement, later on after talking to a certain person in a town, she turns into a monster and attacks, then flies to safety. If you let yourself get into the game, it has a very paranoid feel to it. Unlike in Zelda 1, where you were alone in the world because you were pretty much in the wilderness, in Zelda 2 you are alone in the world because the rest of the people are hiding in the towns, afraid of the wandering bands of monsters.

In every fantasy action/adventure/RPG the world is supposedly in danger of being destroyed/ruled by a dark and evil king/monster/etc. Zelda 2 is the only game that actually feels like it, other than Castlevania 2 (itself another misunderstood sequel).

It's really the darkest of the Zelda games and besides some goofy characters here and there, the game is dead serious.

The game is difficult, but that is because the controls are so unique. The physics are unlike pretty much any other game I've played, and once you get good at swordfighting, the duels you will have with the knights can get pretty epic. Except for the last castle (which is extremely difficult), most of the game is manageable if you take baby steps and try your hardest to accomplish something every set of lives, whether that be to gain a level, collect an item in a temple, or explore a cave.

Zelda 2 shares the great sense of exploration that the original Zelda had... and which the rest of the series lacks mostly. And like Zelda 1, the vast majority of the world is open to you very soon into the game.

I go back and forth on which Zelda game is my favorite. Usually I prefer the Legend of Zelda... but every once in a while, I'll start a new game in Adventure of Link and remember a time when Nintendo could take a successful game and completely change the sequel as an experiment in innovation.

[Shinigami]

Many people were so impressed by Hideo Kojima’s Metal Gear Solid that they rushed to stores just to buy Zone of the Enders for the sole reason of playing the Metal Gear Solid 2 demo that was included with the game. After having their fill of it they all thought MGS2 is going to be the best game of 2001 and one of the best games of all time (I must confess after playing the demo I felt deprived not owning a PS2). Then the date arrived when the game was released and the world mourned in unison. Well it wasn’t exactly that drastic, but people were not happy. Hideo Kojima tricked the world.

Instead of Solid Snake being the main character, it was Raiden, some new guy who didn’t have any of the coolness of Solid Snake. Raiden was whinny, androgynous looking, not a real soldier, had an annoying girlfriend, etc. The list goes on with this guy. In an interview (probably it was in Document of Metal Gear Solid 2, but I’m not sure about that, so don’t quote me on it) Kojima explained how/why Raiden was created. He said they gave out this survey to many people asking various questions about the games they liked to play. One of the questions was something like, “Is Metal Gear Solid a game you would buy?” and they got a response that stood out amongst the bunch, “No because I hate old men! They’re so useless I hate them. There’s no way I’d buy this stupid game!” This was written by some little girl. Ever the entrepreneurs, not willing to lose one sale, Kojima and co created the Shojo fantasy we all know as Raiden. Now little girls everywhere can buy and enjoy a game that was clearly made with adults in mind as target audience. If you ask me, Raiden should have been a girl.

You learn early in the game that this is Raiden’s first real mission. Up until now all his missions have been done in Virtual Reality training, VR, which Raiden keeps bragging about as if it was an actual accomplishment. And his first assignment, disarm some bombs scattered throughout. Raiden has never done this before, so instead of carrying out his task like Snake would do, he whines about never disarming bombs before and that he can’t do it, even though you, the player, is the one who is going to be doing the actual work.

While playing, you might want to save your game. Well Mei Ling isn’t around this time to expand your mind with Chinese proverbs and how they can apply to a sneaking mission. You’ve got Raiden’s annoying girlfriend, Rosemary, who not only nags Raiden about forgetting their anniversary and complains about how Raiden doesn’t open up emotionally to her, she blatantly refuses to call him by his code name during the mission. It’s always, “Jack, why don’t you talk to me?” “Jack, do you know what day it is tomorrow?” “Jack, you really should put some furniture in your room”. Damnit woman, do you want to give away his identity to the enemy? There’s a reason code names are used.

Ok, lets say you can tolerate Raiden’s personality, and learned that holding square during a codec conversation speeds it up. You can enjoy the rest of the game, right? What with its improved First Person View mode, increased enemy AI, better hiding places, excellent graphics, realistic blood effects, taking an enemy’s dog tags and then shooting them in crotch (that Kojima and his wacky sense of humor), challenging boss battles, and a gripping story about conspiracy theories. Wait, let me say that again: gripping story about conspiracy theories. If you hate the United States you might not be bothered any of these, but if you’re a patriotic, red-blooded American, this will be like a punch in the face. And let me just say that this will include *** SPOILER WARNING*** so if you haven’t played it and are interested you should stop reading.

The first of many spoilers: ZOMG the President of the United States is working FOR the terrorists! Not only that, the president isn’t even in charge of the country, he’s just a puppet leader, the elections were rigged, and the real power in the US is controlled by a committee called “The Patriots”. Now if you believe in the existence of groups such as the Illuminati and secret societies, you might think, “Wow, Kojima is a genius, I can’t believe this game was even allowed to be made, he’s on to them!” If not, you might it’s just ridiculous, there’s no way any of it is true, its just fiction, and there’s a disclaimer that states any resemblance to actual people or events is purely coincidental.

Second spoiler: The Y2K scare of 1999 was just a ruse created by The Patriots to allow them to install their information control software into every computer network in the world. Thereby allowing them complete control over what information gets on the Internet. This includes but is not limited to erasing any information about their existence, and taking away our right to free speech and free will.

Third spoiler: Raiden is actually an grunt working for The Patriots and he’s been doing their dirty work for them, namely, taking out Solidus. He’s been ignorant of this the entire time, and Rose is an agent of The Patriots sent to keep tabs on Raiden until the day they are ready to use him to kill Solidus. This brings an interesting dilemma: if Raiden beats Solidus it means The Patriots win and you lose, or if Solidus wins it means you lose because you die. It’s a no win situation.

If you played MGS1 you know there’s a huge plot twist at the end and you should have expected MGS2 to be no different. For many people it was the last few hours of the game that ruined it for them. They thought it was convoluted, they couldn’t understand it, and dismissed it as total garbage. The ending, it’s not supposed to be easy. It’s supposed to make you think. What do you want to pass on to future generations? We live in an age were information no longer travels from father to son. Folklore is no longer told by our parents or grandparents. Instead it’s there in the library or the Internet waiting to be studied by someone. But with all the “information” available on the Internet, how do you know what’s real and what isn’t? There is one thing the Patriots say that still rings in my ears, “But in the current, digitized world, trivial information is accumulating every second, preserved in all its triteness. Never fading, always accessible… All this junk data preserved in an unfiltered state, growing at an alarming rate”. Go to any fan forum or site and it’s easy to see this in action.

I kept playing expecting to play as Snake again. I can imagine this was the same for many people. It wasn’t until MGS3 that I could go back to this and enjoy it as it is without any expectations. The truth is that MGS2 (and MGS series in general) is a game that breaks the fourth wall at times. Raiden says he’s never diffused a bomb before, because this has never happened in a MGS game, the player has never done it. In MGS3 Snake says he has sniping experience in urban (MGS) and marine (MGS2) environments, but never the forest (MGS3), yet this is Naked Snake, not Solid Snake. Throughout the game Raiden idolizes Solid Snake, and if you’re a fan you probably idolize Solid Snake too. Everyone wants to play as Snake, even Raiden.

It makes me angry when I hear people dismiss Metal Gear Solid 2 as having a convoluted and ridiculous story. You can't play it just one and expect to let it all sink in. If you really have trouble understanding the ending I suggest you got to Junkerhq.net and read the ending analysis for Metal Gear Solid 2. MGS2 is far deeper than people give it credit. Kojima has stated that with MGS2 he wanted to write a story that could only be told in a video game. I think he accomplished that and created one of, if not, the greatest game of all time.

Shinigami - Once again, if this could be edited down to include less ranting I wouldn't mind ;D

[Discoalucard]

Hey, uh, these are really cool but in the end I'm just going to pick a sentence or two from a couple people that really encapsulates the big reason(s) why the game does/does not suck. The essays are definitely not a requirement. They don't need to be fair or balanced or anything - a gut reaction is just fine.

Here's an example of what I'm doing. Except I look to be replacing some of my own writing with comments from other people:
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Doom 3

While id Software’s practically created the first person shooter genre, it was Doom that truly revolutionized the genre. But after Doom 2 - which was really just a set of new levels - id ditched the series and went to focus on their new project, Quake. Ten years later, they decided to resurrect their dormant classic. Gamers grew anxious, spending their hard earned cash on fancy new video cards, all in anticipation of the next coming of the game that practically started it at all.

When Doom 3 finally came out in August 2004, many gamers shared the same opinion - it sure was dark.

Yes, instead of the action-packed shooter they were expecting, they got something much closer to a survival horror game, much more Silent Hill than Serious Sam. Sure, there were shotguns to wield and demons to massacre, but most of it was wrapped around dark hallways that were more focused on atmosphere than action. Heck, you couldn’t even use a flashlight and a weapon at the same time, so many players resorted to using the infamous “Duct Tape” mod just to play the game the way they wanted too. Many also complained of repetitive environments, boring levels, and hackneyed scares - hitting a button, and triggering an onset of imps tends to lose its impact around the tenth time or so. Plus, the multiplayer options were sparse, which was a tough blow considering how revolutionary the original’s was.

The first person shooter genre had grown tremendously since Doom was released. With many more games like Deus Ex or Half Life focusing on story, simple run and gun shooters seemed relatively shallow, and id seemed to want do separate themselves from all of the Quake games they’d been putting out. Even though it angered many fans, Doom 3 sold pretty well and managed to show off the impressive lighting effects of the brand new engine id had created.

[Shinigami]

Err yeah, sorry about that. When it comes to DMC and MGS I just don't know when to quit.

[kal]

I thought I'd mention as a relatively big fan of DMC, when the 'Demon Tank' appeared in Devil May Cry two, that was it for me I just couldn't accept the game at all.

The game just felt far more generic then DMC and the fact that I killed the end blob boss thing standing back and shooting it until it died just left a sour taste in my mouth. Of course to each their own opinion.

[Sac (a.k.a Icaras)]

Chrono Cross: The game plays so differantly, and the storyline links are so weak that, if it wasn't for the "chrono" of the title, you'd be hard pressed to call it a sequel.

[Shellshock]

Man the only thing I liked about Chrono Cross was the intro song.
I played the hell out of FF 6 and its beautiful art design, so by the time FF 7 came out featuring Cloud's shoulders looking like 2 triangles I just couldn't get into it. The story was good I have to admit, but I kind of forced myself to finish it. I really enjoyed FF 8, except for that stupid physics defying space walk and all the romantic drama.
Anybody played Vagrant Story??? That game deserves a sequel.

[Shadax]

Pop: Warrior Within.

People often cite PoP:WW as the sophomore slump of an otherwise fine and downright refreshing series. Naysayers often cite the downright ridiculous dialog (it's pretty sad when the climax of a cutscene is just someone screaming "YOU BITCH!") and hilariously overwrought nu-metal soundtrack of what went wrong. What they fail to realize, however, is Warrior Within, from a gameplay perspective, fixed the biggest problem with the original game: long stretches of monotonous combat. The platforming sections were far more epic, and the combat was totally revamped into something that people could actually enjoy. Who cares if you had to listen to some shitty studio musician fumble out some Fear Factory crap while you did your acrobatics, or that the script, character design, and atmosphere were out of a bad Dio music video? I was too busy enjoying the game, cheesy parts included, to notice.

Sorry if that's a bit too long. Feel free to whittle away at it if you decide to use it.