First region-locked PS3 disc game (Atlus sucks)

[Allie]

Jul 6, 2012 10:05:57 GMT -5 acidonia said:

Jul 6, 2012 8:44:35 GMT -5 Super Orbus said:

But maybe the first one anyone cares about.

Personally, I think the solution is to do a better job of doing simultaneous multi-region releases, thus removing the incentive to import. But I understand that can be difficult, particularly when there are different licensees involved. A sale's a sale, but which division / company it goes to makes a difference on the balance sheet. Region locks are definitely not very consumer-friendly though.

This Sony could learn from they do this Crap on PSN all the time if you live in Europe a game/DLC gets announced for a certain date yet does not show on that date for Europe 90% of the time. Due to the fact Sony think its a good idea to have different quality testers for Europe to pass stuff than US or Japan this makes games and DLC come out days or even months after everywhere else. This is not the case with Microsoft if it passes it is out everywhere on the same date world wide 99.9% of the time yet Sony need three divisions to do the exact same thing .

Most games are brought out in Us and Europe days apart now except for everything on Nintendo Consoles for some reason.

Do not expect this to reach Europe days after US though because all Zen United games are out in US months before they reach Europe. Blazblue published by them was so delayed the sequel continuum Shift came out in the exact same year for Europe even the PSP and 3DS ports was delayed months for no reason at all.

The only game US would want to import from them would be Arcana Heart 3 due to the fact Sony of America was Idiots and Forced it to be PSN only because of their stupid it has to be PSN only if it has no English Dub rule. But if you owned a 360 and no Ps3 they is no way if your American you could play this game at because both Japanese and European versions are Region locked it's the same for all the Blazblue games as well.

Also, quite a few people in the US imported the EU PS3 version of Warriors Orochi 3 (though that was Koei, not Zen), as it was also subjected to the "no English voices" rule (and I actually don't blame Koei for not doing one, since there are 120+ characters to be voiced).

[Allie]

Jul 6, 2012 10:13:18 GMT -5 zellsf said:

While I do hate Atlus for doing this, I think some blame should be put on Sony too. They have stated the PS3 is region free in the past so they should enforce that.

I would have something against Zen, but I avoid buying titles from publishers who delay European releases by months already, so I can't do more

Definitely waiting for cheap used copies of any future Atlus games I want if they go through with this though.

Has Atlus ever self-published anything in EU, or do they license everything out to other publishers? If I remember, most of their EU PS2 Output was published by Ghostlight, no?

[acidonia]

Another thing is why as Atlus never had a European Branch. They have a digtal branch that Published Zeno Clash 1 and 2 when its out next year along with Rock of Ages and Trine 2 all these reached Europe. But no other Atlus games except the Persona 1 Remake on European PSN but that's it. Only other US Japanese game translating Company that ignores Europe even more is Arksys next to none of their have reached Europe in any form even the PSN only ones.

[Sketcz-1000]

Way of the Samurai 4 is getting a disc release in the EU, but digital only in the USA. I'm getting the disc release, but what if it's region locked? Any hopeful US gamers wanting a physical copy are SOL then. Same with Forbidden Siren. The physical release for Europe was excellent, at a decent price, with some making of video documentaries bundled alongside the game.

[zellsf]

Jul 6, 2012 10:35:52 GMT -5 Allie said:

Jul 6, 2012 10:13:18 GMT -5 zellsf said:

While I do hate Atlus for doing this, I think some blame should be put on Sony too. They have stated the PS3 is region free in the past so they should enforce that.

I would have something against Zen, but I avoid buying titles from publishers who delay European releases by months already, so I can't do more

Definitely waiting for cheap used copies of any future Atlus games I want if they go through with this though.

Has Atlus ever self-published anything in EU, or do they license everything out to other publishers? If I remember, most of their EU PS2 Output was published by Ghostlight, no?

Not sure why this post was in response to me?

[retr0gamer]

Jul 6, 2012 10:35:52 GMT -5 Allie said:

Has Atlus ever self-published anything in EU, or do they license everything out to other publishers? If I remember, most of their EU PS2 Output was published by Ghostlight, no?

They've no EU branch so rely on other publishers here which means we miss out on a lot of releases.

As a European all I can say to this is 'wankers'. Anyway, the European publisher is still going to miss out on a sale from me because I got a US PS3 since it was cheaper.

I really don't get region locking. Small publishers are basically just lossing sales in the small hope that a european publisher decides to publish their game. I've been forced countless times to modify hardware just to play the games I want. Nintendo really were the worst by region locking the 3DS and forcing me to track down a US machine so I wouldn't inevitably miss out on games I want to play.

[Deleted]

I don't think it's as apocalyptic as it seems, Sketcz. Still, this will suck if more companies start region locking - I've been buying PS3 games off of Zavvi in the recent past, since we either didn't get the games to begin with (Saint Seiya: Sanctuary Battle) or because I wanted a disk version (Warriors Orochi 3, Arcana Heart 3).

But yeah...Atlus has kind of sucked lately. Their pack-ins/bonuses have been kind of shit, they've cut content (Persona 2: IS), and now this. Sad thing is that I'm totally still going to buy it since I loves me some Persona 4.

[Scylla]

While it sucks that Atlus feels the need to do this, I don't think it's particularly evil or greedy or whatever. Historically, regional lockout on home consoles has been the norm. PS3 owners should thank their lucky stars that the system has been an exception to the rule. If a couple games do include regional lockout, or even if all PS3 games do from this point (near the end of the PS3's life span), I think that's a fair price to pay for the luxury of having all the previous games be region-free.

Personally, I find the trend of handhelds including regional lockout far more troubling, since, opposite of the home consoles, they've historically been region-free. It was definitely frustrating when the DS introduced regional lockout, when it previously had none, and the regional lockout of the 3DS is already causing me grief (at this rate, I don't know if Beyond the Labyrinth is ever getting an English release, and I sure as hell don't want to fork out the cash for a Japanese 3DS).

[zellsf]

Then imagine how Europeans feel, we've either had to import expensive US systems or miss out on some of the greatest games of all time.

We don't thank our lucky stars when a console manufacturer tries to stop that from happening, we just say it's about damn time.

[Scylla]

The goal should be for more European versions of games to be made. Lack of regional lockout just puts a band-aid on that situation, one that actually keeps things from improving because if European gamers are spending all of their money on importing, then publishers in Europe aren't seeing big enough domestic sales to warrant picking up the licenses of additional titles. This game is getting a European release, so what's the problem? If the game was region-free and everybody in Europe rushed out to import the US version and skipped on the European version, then that only contributes to the problem. And if it's a matter of impatience, I'm really not sympathetic to that.

European gamers often seem to like to play the victim, but the games that do get US releases but not European are a drop in the bucket compared to the boatloads of games that have stayed Japan-exclusive, available to neither North Americans or Europeans. We're all missing out on a ton of amazing games. You either do what you gotta do to get around that or you go without.

By the way, there are also a lot of cool games that came out in Europe but not the US. Terranigma, lots of TwinBee and Parodius games, Tales of Eternia and Breath of Fire III for PSP, Doshin the Giant, Rakuga Kids, The Firemen, the colorized Konami GB Collection games, etc. etc.

[megatronbison]

I think you'll find historically we've been shafted over greater games in the past than the games you listed there. It took them nearly 2 years to agree to release Secret of Mana in the UK for instance- by the time it came out- yes, sales were low because most people were tired of waiting on Nintendo possibly agreeing to release it and had imported it instead. What was Nintendos reaction? Not to release games quicker- instead to say "the UK/Europe doesn't like RPG's" - pricks! It's insulting enough the fact most developers go "$200 = £200!" when it comes to console releases too.

edit:
uh, not that I want to make this a competition ¬_¬

[DPB]

We've also been stuck playing many of our games in slow-mo and/or with gigantic borders. It wasn't until part way through the PS2 generation that changed.

[zellsf]

Chrono Trigger
Earthbound
Final Fantasy IV
Gradius III
Ogre Battle
Secret of Evermore
Shadowrun
Super Mario RPG
Ys III

Chrono Cross
Einhander
Final Fantasy Tactics
Lunar
Nectaris
Persona
Rhapsody
Tactics Ogre
Thunder Force V
Valkyrie Profile
Xenogears

That's just going through *my* favorite games on those two systems, ignoring some lesser known titles and not listing all the action games that ran practically in slow motion because of lazy PAL porting. I forgot where I was going with this, but that's no drop in a bucket. No not even compared to the Japan exclusives (which keep in mind, we're also missing out on).

The goal should be for more European versions of games to be made. Lack of regional lockout just puts a band-aid on that situation, one that actually keeps things from improving because if European gamers are spending all of their money on importing, then publishers in Europe aren't seeing big enough domestic sales to warrant picking up the licenses of additional titles. This game is getting a European release, so what's the problem?

The precedent this sets. The problem is also that the EU publisher is too incompetent to actually publish the game in time in Europe, and has to resort to anti-consumer practices so they can continue their incompetence. I have no sympathy for that.

Oh, and region locking was way more effective before, the situation has had enough time to "improve" back when there was no blaming the consumers. It never happened. In fact, this generation with practically no region locks has seen more EU localizations than ever.

It's almost as if region free is forcing publishers to actually do a good job, and that's scaring them. Again, no sympathy. They want to force region locks on us again, I import US systems and never buy EU titles.

Apologies for all the editing, it's really too late for me to be writing stuff.

[retr0gamer]

Jul 6, 2012 18:07:12 GMT -5 Scylla said:

The goal should be for more European versions of games to be made. Lack of regional lockout just puts a band-aid on that situation, one that actually keeps things from improving because if European gamers are spending all of their money on importing, then publishers in Europe aren't seeing big enough domestic sales to warrant picking up the licenses of additional titles. This game is getting a European release, so what's the problem? If the game was region-free and everybody in Europe rushed out to import the US version and skipped on the European version, then that only contributes to the problem. And if it's a matter of impatience, I'm really not sympathetic to that.

I'd much rather have the option to play the games than for publishers to region lock their games in the slim hope that a european publisher will pick it up. Just look at all the Cave shooters that stayed in japan because of the short sightedness of Cave to region lock the game sin the slim hope that a western publisher would bite. I really hope that this doesn't start a trend with smaller publishers who are most likely to do this and also happen to release the most interesting games and the ones I'm interested in.

And don't even start saying european gamers tend to play the victim. For years we have had to pay about twice the price for the same games and hardware, shoddy PAL versions with gameplay and music ruined by slowdown and the aspect ratio messed up by borders not to mention missing out on some of the greatest games of all time. Sure Europeans got the odd exclusive but it's the exception rather than the rule. It was only the Dreamcasts PAL 60 support that things changed and it took a massive public backlash before Sony allowed developers to include NTSC mode in PS2 games and even still publishers like Square Enix continued bad practices.

[Wildcat]

Atlus responds:

Friends of ATLUS,

The last week brought with it news that Persona 4 Arena would effectively become the first PlayStation 3 system game to be region-locked. We can today confirm that this is true; the game will be region-locked in all its respective territories of release.

As we’ve ascertained from your impassioned responses online, this is obviously a tremendous frustration for many fans. We understand the various perspectives on the matter. Those who fear this is a slippery slope, the beginning of a dangerous and unnecessary precedent. Those who import foreign hardware for a multitude of reasons and expect to be unlimited in their software selection. Those who aren’t necessarily affected by this issue, but who are principally opposed to it. We are not blind to these concerns and we pledge to grow ever more informed as to exactly what our fans want. It should be added that we were completely unprepared for the force with which the community communicated their disapproval.

There are, however, a few points to clarify. This is NOT the beginning of a new ATLUS policy, nor do we view it as a precedent or a slippery slope. If anything, your determination and dedication to what you believe in has certainly stood in the face of that. This is an isolated case, a situation precipitated by a number of factors, some of which are simply out of our North American hands. Moreover, and perhaps there is no way to convince our fans of this considering the magnitude of the betrayal many are feeling, but we are not doing this out of malice or a desire to control. Allow us to explain.

Persona 4 Arena achieves a number of triumphs for our North American publishing house. For years, our fans have asked us to include dual language audio in our games. Finally, with P4 Arena, we were able to deliver on that desire and include the exact same content as the Japanese release for our North American fans. Moreover, our North American community is often forced to wait months for a localized release (a plight our friends across the Atlantic can relate to). Again, with P4 Arena, we’re able to release within two weeks of Japan. We pushed hard for these things. We know our fans want them–well really, EXPECT them–and we did our best to get as much for our release as possible.

The unforeseen consequence in all of this was that we had a version of our biggest game of the year releasing within a couple weeks in two territories, both identical in content, but at radically different price points. Importing, as great as it is for gamers who otherwise can’t get access to a title, can also cannibalize the performance of a title in one territory to the benefit of another. While we’re all one big ATLUS family, the reality is that the dramatic difference between the Yen and the Dollar makes for a dramatic difference in price. So the decision was made, perhaps at the expense of some of our fans, clearly at the frustration of many, to region-lock Persona 4 Arena.

For many of you, there is no explanation that resonates, no justification that atones for this fact. We can only endeavor to earn back your confidence and, to learn from your arguments. We absolutely recognize the fear that this is the beginning of a trend. We in no way view it as such. Please also keep in mind that the game’s excellent online multiplayer is global, a fact that is in no way affected by the region-lock. Players can compete against fighters from all territories.

A tremendous team of talented developers and artists poured their blood, sweat, and tears into Persona 4 Arena, and every reaction we’ve ever received to the game has shown that those efforts are readily apparent. The decision to region-lock P4 Arena was a business one, one that has very clearly affected how many perceive the project, but we ask you to please not overlook the exceptional efforts of the people behind the game and to work with us through constructive dialogue.

Thank you.