|
|
Post by Scylla on Jul 6, 2012 21:39:17 GMT -5
I'm not saying that European gamers haven't, overall, had it rougher in terms of getting localizations of foreign games, but my point is that, in the grand scheme of things, Americans and Europeans are basically in the same boat. We're all missing out on TONS of amazing games that never reached our shores. I mean, since it's usually what European gamers complain about the most, let's look at SNES RPGs. The Super Famicom got hundreds of them, with tons and tons being really great, but the US only got roughly a couple dozen, give or take a little depending on how you define an RPG. And several of the ones we did get aren't that great, and some of the good ones got absolutely awful localizations. So how many did Europe get? Around half as many as the US? A bit less than half? We're talking a difference of what, 10-20 games? When some of those are really, really good games, like Chrono Trigger, I can understand the frustration, but it's still not a huge difference in the end compared to what we all missed out on from Japan.
I'm almost not saying that regional lockout isn't annoying. I love when a system has no regional lockout or is very easy to overcome, like the simple physical alterations to SNES or N64 (for NTSC systems, that is), but I can't blame companies when they want to ensure that games will sell in their proper regions. Anyone who has been gaming for very long and has the slightest bit of interest in what's available in other territories knows that home console regional lockout is the norm, so it was a lucky break that PS3 is region-free. 360 and Wii owners still have to deal with regional lockout. I think PS3 owners took it for granted and have come to expect it now, though, so that's where this complaining stems. They've forgotten just how abnormal the situation is and fail to realize just how lucky they are that any games on PS3 are region-free.
|
|
|
|
Post by Feynman on Jul 6, 2012 21:57:05 GMT -5
I'm not saying that European gamers haven't, overall, had it rougher in terms of getting localizations of foreign games, but my point is that, in the grand scheme of things, Americans and Europeans are basically in the same boat. We're all missing out on TONS of amazing games that never reached our shores. There is a fundamental difference between being unable to play a game because you don't understand the language it was made for, and being unable to play a game that is in your language because of where you live. You're comparing apples to oranges, and saying "well golly, it sucks that you can't play certain English language games you understand, but it's not that big of a deal because look at all these Japanese language games you can't play because of the language barrier" is not only missing the point entirely, it comes across as rather condescending. |
|
|
|
Post by zellsf on Jul 6, 2012 22:14:23 GMT -5
That Atlus isn't starting a trend means nothing, when other publishers see that Atlus has managed to push Sony into allowing region locking, some of them will follow. Not supporting a company that starts this kind of shit again.
Also, I would take the games Europe missed out in the SNES era over every Japan exclusive, easily.
Provided they don't screw up horribly, they will be able to sell games in their proper regions. There aren't masses of people importing games into Europe. That only starts happening, when you, you know, delay the game a year or two. Just for fun.
Why do you have problems blaming companies for outright incompetence?
|
|
|
|
Post by Feynman on Jul 6, 2012 22:30:19 GMT -5
Provided they don't screw up horribly, they will be able to sell games in their proper regions. There aren't masses of people importing games into Europe. That only starts happening, when you, you know, delay the game a year or two. Just for fun. Why do you have problems blaming companies for outright incompetence? This is really a key point. Importing games is not widespread. It never has been, it never will be. The vast majority of people would rather wait a few extra weeks and buy the local release of a game than spend the extra money required to import just to play a game sooner. If imports become a big concern for a company, that's an indication that their distribution and/or localization processes are severely flawed, and region locking is a cheap way for them to avoid the problem by making consumers deal with it. In fact, let's reiterate that statement in bold letters: Region locking is a way for companies to avoid a problem by placing the burden of that problem onto the consumer. |
|
|
|
Post by Scylla on Jul 6, 2012 23:21:15 GMT -5
There is a fundamental difference between being unable to play a game because you don't understand the language it was made for, and being unable to play a game that is in your language because of where you live. You're comparing apples to oranges, and saying "well golly, it sucks that you can't play certain English language games you understand, but it's not that big of a deal because look at all these Japanese language games you can't play because of the language barrier" is not only missing the point entirely, it comes across as rather condescending. None of that makes any sense to me. How you interpreted what I'm saying as condescending is completely beyond me. First of all, the vast majority of Europe consists of non-English-speaking countries. Sure, lots of Europeans know English to some degree as a second language, but the main reason North American games aren't immediately ported over is because of the need to localize a game into several different languages. Second, lots of people import Japanese games without knowing the language, myself included. A lot of Japanese games aren't even that text-heavy. The main thing keeping American gamers from playing Japan-exclusive games in the past was purely the lack of a domestic release. Prior to around 2000, imports were pretty much impossible for the average American gamer to get a hold of, and even if you could, it was usually way too cost prohibitive. And while accessibility is much better now, assuming you're savvy enough to know the outlets and have the means to pay for the items, cost is still a big problem (especially with the terrible exchange rate now). So no matter whether the original game is in your native language or not, not having a domestic version sucks. Personally, I'd think that logic would suggest that if an import is available in your language it's BETTER than if the game isn't, since it makes it more import-friendly. It seems like you're suggesting that it's better when there's only a Japanese version, as if it's easy to write-off then or something, but that just seems loony to me. I think that's all the more a harder pill to swallow, knowing that even if you import it's still in a language you don't understand. |
|
|
|
Post by muteKi on Jul 6, 2012 23:51:51 GMT -5
And of course at the time for most users playing, say, Famicom games on any NES was pretty much an impossibility. Maybe if you actually had a copy of Gyromite or whatever and actually took a security bit to it, but otherwise you were out of luck. It's more than just language and refresh rate issues, after all.
SNES was probably the easiest one of the time if only because all you had to do was trim a couple tabs on the console itself. Genesis had software lockouts on some games, which became more common later in its life. (One of the more surprising examples of this: Sonic freaking 3) At least Super Fantasy Zone came around before that was standard and even got a release in Europe you metrosexual fucks you limey bastards you colonialist tyrants you...ungrateful non-Americans, you!
|
|
|
|
Post by Sac (a.k.a Icaras) on Jul 7, 2012 1:22:31 GMT -5
Region locking seems like a way to LOSE money, really. For example, I had to purchase a 2nd hand copy of Suikoden 3 as it was never relased in PAL territories...but I'd have HAPPILY pay Konami for an official brand new copy. Instead, some ebayer got my cash.
If we see Atlas start to cry about 2nd hand sales losing them money and they pull this crap, i'd be saying "WHAT THE HELL DO YOU EXPECT!?"
|
|
|
|
Post by Sketcz-1000 on Jul 7, 2012 1:48:23 GMT -5
We've also been stuck playing many of our games in slow-mo and/or with gigantic borders. It wasn't until part way through the PS2 generation that changed. It was Sega's Dreamcast which first introduced the option to play PAL games in 60Hz, not the PS2.  On the plus side, Europe did get Forbidden Siren 2, probably my favourite game on the PS2 and worth importing the system for, and Michigan... Which is mind-blowing trash. The problem is also that the EU publisher is too incompetent to actually publish the game in time in Europe, and has to resort to anti-consumer practices so they can continue their incompetence. I have no sympathy for that. In fact, this generation with practically no region locks has seen more EU localizations than ever. It's almost as if region free is forcing publishers to actually do a good job, and that's scaring them. Again, no sympathy. Excellently said! We live in a capitalist world, and as much I like the idea of hardcore communism, if we're going to live like we do then screw the corporations. They either pick themselves up and doing their fucking jobs, or go bankrupt. I don't have time or sympathy to waste on these cretins and their excuses - give me the product NOW, or die and let me get it elsewhere. How in hell's name do you run a company, a massive business, with this level of ineptitude and lack of insight? It's like Coke saying "Derp! Derp! We replaced the sugar in our drinks with salt and we had no idea people wouldn't like this!" Of course people are going to hate it you incompetent morons! On a side note, regarding the debate over US and European RPGs, I'm afraid to say I don't quite agree with Succubus, because there is indeed a big difference between an American not being able top play a Japanese game due to the language barrier, and a British person not being able to play an American game because some bastard at Nintendo decided to put a security chip in the US cartridge. In the UK we had a magazine called SuperPlay, which was all about the SNES, and they openly advised all British gamers to import and American SNES so as to avoid the 50Hz problem, delayed releases and high prices. At one point, due to the strong Pound VS Dollar, it was actually cheaper to import an American SNES game than buy a local British one (which retailed at £60 vs $60 I think?). One piece of advice was: buy the American machine and remove the cartridge tabs, that way you can also play Japanese games. See? US gamers didn't even have a technical lockout due to the technology, they could just remove tabs and play Japanese games, and for action titles there wouldn't be any barrier. For many years I was envious of the US, and imported as often as I could afford. Still, if you think that's bad, feel sorry for the French. Even when an RPG does come over, many times it's entirely in English, and on the box it says something like: "Jeux Langue Anglais" Sometimes they translate it all into French, but not always, and many particularly large or lengthy titles are released as is, in English, albeit with a translated manual. Ha! Imagine that, your country receives an official release but you have to play it in someone else's language. |
|
|
|
Post by Sketcz-1000 on Jul 7, 2012 2:19:07 GMT -5
You know, I read that link, and I don't know if my glasses are smudged or perhaps I'm hallucinating, but I read that entire corporate spiel as the following. Maybe it's just me... |
|
|
|
Post by retr0gamer on Jul 7, 2012 7:39:36 GMT -5
To put the US vs Europe debate into perspective remember the stink over the operation rainfall games? Well that pretty much was what it was like every month in Europe during the 90's except 99% of the time we never got the games and when we did they were vastly inferior.
I've heard horror stories as well about the non english localizations.
|
|
|
|
Post by acidonia on Jul 7, 2012 8:23:30 GMT -5
Lots in the UK bought Japanese Megadrives over European ones in UK as well because Japanese model 1's could play games from any region until they added region chips which was a few years later. I saw plenty of stores selling Japanese megadrives at time I know my cousins megadrive was a Japanese model.
About games getting poorly localised for Europe when my middle brother bought a original xbox in Spain it came with a Moto Cross game. The game was objective based but was just in English expect the manual and box so why could a Spanish person even get anywhere in the game.
Nintendo still treat Europe like crap though heres some recent examples
Professor Layton and the Spectre's Call on Ds has the Entire London Life mode Removed in European copies due to the fact they they could not translate it to other european languages in time for Christmas season for Europe. Yet it was included in the US version of the game. The series sells the most in Europe as well.
Pokemon Conquest for DS is only begin sold in UK and Italy in Europe dumb thing to do for one of your biggest selling series.
|
|
|
|
Post by zellsf on Jul 7, 2012 8:37:56 GMT -5
Actually most North American games get simultaneous releases in Europe. So that's not as huge obstacle as publishers constantly keep trying to tell us it is. It's the Japanese games that are often the problem and there's really no logical reasoning for it. It should be fixable by better management.
|
|
|
|
Post by acidonia on Jul 7, 2012 10:15:09 GMT -5
Actually most North American games get simultaneous releases in Europe. So that's not as huge obstacle as publishers constantly keep trying to tell us it is. It's the Japanese games that are often the problem and there's really no logical reasoning for it. It should be fixable by better management. Explain company's like Majesco then they are a US company but take ages to bring anythng out in Europe (Thats if they even try to) even if the said game was developed in Europe. Nano Assault on the 3DS was out in US last November,April in Japan but has still yet to reach Europe even though the deveoper Shin'en is based in Germany. They did the same crap with nearly every game made by Shin'en published by then as well. |
|
|
|
Post by zellsf on Jul 7, 2012 10:42:32 GMT -5
I didn't say incompetence was exclusive to Japanese companies |
|
|
|
Post by cj iwakura on Jul 7, 2012 10:44:49 GMT -5
It tears me up, because I love importing, but I don't want to see this game fail because of some mass boycott either.
I just hope Atlus USA have learned their lesson from the massive backlash, and I'll leave it at that.
|
|
