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Post by kobushi on Dec 12, 2010 1:31:14 GMT -5
The PSP is a marvelous system. It's a shame that most Western developers have given up on it, but there's been a steady stream of great Japanese games. If you haven't already played them on PC, the Falcom games alone make the system worthwile.
Oh, and do not buy Class of Heroes, unless you like giving plagiarist scumbags your money.
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Post by Atma on Dec 12, 2010 1:41:11 GMT -5
Oh, and do not buy Class of Heroes, unless you like giving plagiarist scumbags your money. You're really going to have to expound on this for me. |
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Post by Feynman on Dec 12, 2010 1:46:44 GMT -5
Oh, and do not buy Class of Heroes, unless you like giving plagiarist scumbags your money. Huh? EDIT: Bleh, Atma posted before me, while I was trying to scour Google for information on this alleged plagiarism. I couldn't find anything, so unless you have information you'd like to share with us, I'm forced to assume you've been hitting the crack pipe. |
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Post by TheGunheart on Dec 12, 2010 1:49:54 GMT -5
I'm guessing it's because it barrows so heavily from the Wizardry series.
But you know what? There's no Wizardry on PSP, so all's fair as far as I'm concerned.
Wait a sec...Acquire owns the rights to Wizardry in Japan.
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Post by kobushi on Dec 12, 2010 2:03:02 GMT -5
What, you don't know? Class of Heroes (aka Ken to Mahou to Gakuenmono) is a complete ripoff of Wizardry Xth 2, a PS2 game released in 2006. Not a clone, not a faithful reimagining, not a spiritual successor - hijacked source code of an existing game, with identical maps, identical items (renamed slightly), the same character races and classes, the same game systems, and hastily redrawn art that's very clearly based on Wiz Xth's. It's a complete hack job. They didn't even bother to cover their tracks, and the string "WizXTH2" appears in Class of Heroes' source code. See for yourself: jin115.com/archives/51319574.htmlThere's debate about whether Wizardry Xth 2's source code was obtained legally or illegally, as Wizardry Xth 2's publisher may have sold it when they went under. But from a consumer's perspective, it's highly immoral to re-release a game with identical content as a previous game, but pretend like it's something brand new. **edit: both Michaelsoft (Wiz Xth) and Acquire (CoH) were official licensees of the Wizardry trademark and assets, that's not the issue. I'm sure Class of Heroes is a fine game - after all, they copied wholesale one of the best dungeon crawlers of the decade. |
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Post by Feynman on Dec 12, 2010 2:30:07 GMT -5
Well, I imagine that Acquire probably obtained a license to port Xth 2, given that they haven't been sued into the ground. As for the consumer-awareness thing, that probably sucks if you live in Japan, but as most of us westerners have never played Xth 2, or any of the numerous other such games that never leave Japan, I find that I couldn't care less whether or not it's a straight port with a fresh coat of paint. The series has also gone it's own way since, so if cloning Xth 2 served as the springboard for the advancement of the series, it turned out for the best.
While that doesn't really make passing CoH off as a new game right (except in the west, where it's totally okay, since hardly anybody has played Xth 2), it's not enough for me to froth with rage and declare my undying hatred for the company, especially given that the Wizardy Xth guys no longer exist.
Amusingly enough, the original Wizardry was itself was a flagrant copy of an existing game, so apparently it's a trait that runs in the family.
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Post by wyrdwad on Dec 12, 2010 2:36:23 GMT -5
That's definitely a matter of opinion. Remember, I'm a dude with like, 5 DS games (and no others that really catch my eye)... and over 80 PSP games. (: In my opinion, the PSP is lacking in NOTHING. Its gaming library is fantastic in virtually every regard.
Anyway, a few other recommendations to add to the list (though
- Brave Story: New Traveler
If you like turn-based Final Fantasy-style RPGs, there are none better on the system than this IMHO.
- Hatsune Miku: Project Diva 2nd (import)
If you like rhythm games, this is the best one available, with the most options and the largest variety of music. The Taiko no Tatsujin Portable games are also really good, though, and offer some really great minigames -- but Project Diva is still tops, and the second version pretty much makes the first obsolete!
- Tokobot
Although a PS2 version also exists, Tokobot is still a fantastic game that blends platforming and puzzles in a really, really cool way.
- Lunar: Silver Star Harmony
I hesitate to mention this one, since people might accuse me of being biased... but it really is a great game!
- Wild Arms XF
...Same with this one. (: This is particularly notable for being a strategy RPG that even people who hate strategy RPGs enjoy. I should know, because I hate strategy RPGs, and I actually rather like this game! (:
- Brandish: The Dark Revenant (import)
Virtually no text, and the game is a really amazing, really atmospheric dungeon crawler. If you played and hated Brandish back in the SNES days, give it another shot on the PSP -- you might change your mind about it, as Falcom gave it a really kickass facelift!
Aside from less English-friendly import titles, I think all the other big ones have been mentioned. Allow me to second/third/fourth/whatever the Ys games and Gurumin, though, as they're also absolute top-tier titles.
-Tom
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Post by kobushi on Dec 12, 2010 3:03:22 GMT -5
Well, I imagine that Acquire probably obtained a license to port Xth 2, given that they haven't been sued into the ground. If they had a legitimate license, don't you think they would have said so? Instead, they have denied any connection with Xth 2, in spite of a mountain of evidence to the contrary. It's a wonder they haven't been sued. So outright plagiarism is OK as long as it doesn't happen in your territory? Not cloning, mind you. Good, old-fashioned, copy-and-paste plagiarism. And by "advancement of the series", you mean Class of Heroes 2, the buggy mess that continued to use the plagiarised source code from the first game? Actually, they do still exist. team-muramasa.com/munity/If you like dungeon crawlers, these are the people you should be supporting. Their latest title, Students of Round, is coming to the Xbox 360 in February, so hopefully it will be released worldwide. |
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Post by wyrdwad on Dec 12, 2010 4:44:22 GMT -5
To be fair, there's also a Class of Heroes 3, and it's looking to be a pretty decent game -- as dungeon-crawlers go, anyway.
This is the first I've heard of the plagiarism in the original, though. I wonder if Atlus knew about that when they published the game stateside...
-Tom
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Post by Feynman on Dec 12, 2010 8:52:57 GMT -5
I still don't care. This never became a sensational headline, the original Xth group is still around and Acquire hasn't been sued into the ground, so that would imply that some kind of deal took place behind the scenes. Nobody seems to care about this aside from a very small handful of people. When even the guys responsible for the original game shrug and turn the other cheek, well, I'm definitely not going to lose any sleep over it. As for supporting Team Muramasa ? I would love to, just as soon as they release their game in a language that isn't gibberish to me. Until then, I'm going to enjoy Class of Heroes and not feel a single iota of guilt. EDIT: To make my feelings more clear: protecting IP rights is not a burden that falls on the consumer. If Team Muramasa doesn't want Class of Heroes around, it's their responsibility to defend their IP. If you don't defend your IP when somebody else uses it (outside of any applicable region free use laws, of course), that's the same as giving them your approval. With the game being legally released and on store shelves, consumers are free to buy it if they want to, and there are no ethical problems with doing so, even if you know about the plagiarism thing. If Team Muramasa wanted Class of Heroes to stop being sold, it was their job to get it pulled from stores. Class of Heroes has been on store shelves for over a year (two in Japan) now, it hasn't been pulled, and there are several sequels out in it's country of origin. Team Muramasa still hasn't kicked up a fuss. If they had complained, worked through the legal system, and had Class of Heroes pulled, I would be on your side. They didn't. As long as Class of Heroes and it's sequels are available legally, there is zero ethical problem with buying the game. Further, the vast majority of Class of Heroes copies nowadays are probably used, given that it was an Atlus release. Buying a used game gives zero money to the devs, so if it bothers someone that much, well, they can have their cake and eat it too. Putting on your white knight hat for Team Muramasa is an exercise in pointlessness. They aren't defending their own IP (assuming there isn't some kind of deal to begin with) and Class of Heroes marches on, so there is zero reason whatsoever for consumers to give a shit about the situation. |
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Post by kobushi on Dec 12, 2010 9:26:08 GMT -5
I can think of several reasons why Team Muramasa didn't sue:
1) They are a tiny, 12 person studio focusing on a very niche genre. They don't have the resources necessary to mount a legal offensive, even with a very good case.
2) Wiz Xth's publisher, Michaelsoft, is now defunct, so untangling the copyrights for a court case would be difficult.
3) Team Muramasa had a bad relationship with Michaelsoft, and they went independent soon after the release of Wizardry Xth 2.
4) Team Muramasa would rather be making more games than suing people.
feynman has made it clear that he doesn't care about any of this, but I hope I have explained the situation well enough for other people who might be interested.
Lastly, if you are a Class of Heroes fan, please don't think I'm blaming you. I think Zerodiv and Acquire did something despicable, and I don't want to see them getting money and recognition for other people's work. But if you played and enjoyed Class of Heroes, that's cool. I'm sure it's a good game. But please realize that Team Muramasa deserves the credit for it.
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Post by kitten on Dec 12, 2010 11:43:53 GMT -5
Wow, I had no idea that Class of Heroes ripped off Wizardry. I guess I should consider buying a few Wizardry games  I even bought Class of Heroes at full price. That's definitely a matter of opinion. Remember, I'm a dude with like, 5 DS games (and no others that really catch my eye)... and over 80 PSP games. (: In my opinion, the PSP is lacking in NOTHING. Its gaming library is fantastic in virtually every regard. You also own like a billion RPGs and to exclusively talk about and recommend RPGs, proving my other point |
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Post by synthstrife on Dec 12, 2010 11:45:20 GMT -5
This talk about Zerodiv/Acquire ripping off Team Muramasa/Michaelsoft's Wizardry Xth 2 reminded me that I still need to buy that. Although I don't have any interest in dungeon crawling RPGs in general, W Xth managed to catch my attention somehow. Anyway, thanks for putting that to our attention, kobushi. Even though I've known about the Class of Heroes series existence for a while now, this apparent copy/paste job has pushed my already low interest in the series to zero. And I must say Students of Round looks really nice, which looks to use similair, but awesome art-style found in the Wizardry series (well, from the previously released ones, I guess...), 'tis a shame that it's getting ported to console I don't own... nor have any interest in getting for the time being. As for being on-topic... I don't really have anything to add as I'm pretty much getting into the PSP myself. Most of the games that have been mentioned are pretty solid, so yeah.  |
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Post by cj iwakura on Dec 12, 2010 11:49:20 GMT -5
Check out DJ MAX Fever if you can. If you enjoy that, check out the imports like Clazziquai Edition and Black Square.
It's not quite like any other rhythm game ever made. It's like Beatmania, but it controls with PSP face buttons.
Portable 3 is a significant letdown, but dang is it pretty.
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Post by cj iwakura on Dec 12, 2010 11:50:59 GMT -5
Re: The Wizardry drama, I wonder what he thinks about the PS3 Wizardry games coming out soon, not to mention the DS one. (It's criminal that no one is localizing these games.)
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I even bought Class of Heroes at full price. 
