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Post by 🧀Son of Suzy Creamcheese🧀 on Nov 22, 2014 5:43:54 GMT -5
Never heard of someone liking the N64 more than the PS1. Maybe it has something to do with it being the first console for a lot of people? In my opinion, there were some good games for the thing, but by and large, the overall landscape was a pretty barren wasteland. The PS1 has a larger library, no doubt. But the top games for N64 are better than the top games for PS1, IMO. Plus, the 3D capabilities and the controller were way better on the N64. 3D things on PS1 always looked like they could fall apart any moment, if that makes any sense. And this is coming from someone who played PS1 back in the day and didn't own a N64 until in the 00's. Both are absolutely essential for any gamer, though.
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Post by Terrifying on Nov 22, 2014 5:55:14 GMT -5
There was one game which resulted in my PlayStation collecting dust for a while. It's called GoldenEye 007...
I like the N64 (except for Super Mario 64 *ahum*), and I like the PlayStation. Honestely I think that the PlayStation was just better in terms of software. It's library was more Japan-centric, and diverse. It had some of the finest Western titles too. My first encounter with Broken Sword was on the PlayStation. There was WipeOut and 2097, Destruction Derby 1 and 2, Die Hard Trilogy, Abe's Oddysee, Porsche Challenge, Rapid Racer... Man, it was really an awesome time...
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2014 6:01:44 GMT -5
Definitely see what you mean about the difference between models on PS1 and N64. Considering that Nintendo's system launched well over two years after Sony's, it stands to reason that the N64 would be capable of putting more polygons on screen at a time. Truly, though, that fact just makes the PS1's accomplishments all the more impressive to me. Developers did so much with so little on Sony's little gray box.
Still, I have a difficult time buying into the idea that the high points on N64 were uniformly better than on PS1. N64 had nothing close to MGS1, RE1, Vagrant Story, FFT, SotN, Clock Tower, Persona 2, etc, etc. No doubt this just comes down to preference, but the limited storage capacity of N64 cartridges meant your adventures were, by and large, much more limited in scope on Nintendo's system.
Even for as classic as Ocarina of Time is, I really wouldn't suggest that the N64 is essential at all. More of an oddity along the lines of the Jaguar or 3DO. I say "along the lines", but it was nowhere near as bad as those two. Just not something to hunt down unless you're really determined to experience that portion of gaming history for yourself.
Of course, no offense meant by any of this. Like a lot of people, though, I grew up in a Nintendo house for the most part. Even now, nearly 20 years later, I'm still feeling burned over the misstep that was the N64.
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Post by GamerL on Nov 22, 2014 6:27:51 GMT -5
Definitely see what you mean about the difference between models on PS1 and N64. Considering that Nintendo's system launched well over two years after Sony's, it stands to reason that the N64 would be capable of putting more polygons on screen at a time. Truly, though, that fact just makes the PS1's accomplishments all the more impressive to me. Developers did so much with so little on Sony's little gray box. Still, I have a difficult time buying into the idea that the high points on N64 were uniformly better than on PS1. N64 had nothing close to MGS1, RE1, Vagrant Story, FFT, SotN, Clock Tower, Persona 2, etc, etc. No doubt this just comes down to preference, but the limited storage capacity of N64 cartridges meant your adventures were, by and large, much more limited in scope on Nintendo's system. Even for as classic as Ocarina of Time is, I really wouldn't suggest that the N64 is essential at all. More of an oddity along the lines of the Jaguar or 3DO. I say "along the lines", but it was nowhere near as bad as those two. Just not something to hunt down unless you're really determined to experience that portion of gaming history for yourself. Of course, no offense meant by any of this. Like a lot of people, though, I grew up in a Nintendo house for the most part. Even now, nearly 20 years later, I'm still feeling burned over the misstep that was the N64. The graphics differences between the PS1 and N64 were weird, the N64's graphics certainly looked more "solid" but they were also blurrier, the PS1's graphics were more stuttery and pixelated but also seemed to look sharper, this might have been due to CD vs cartridges? (keep in mind I'm going by memories of playing games on the actual consoles on old CRTs, not however they look today with emulators) The PS1 could also have bonus CD rom tech goodies like CGI cutscenes and other videos that were always great mood setters or good ways to tell the story that the N64 couldn't do. So in my opinion the differences between the two are unique enough that they kinda cancel each other out and neither really "wins" in the graphics department.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2014 6:32:54 GMT -5
The blurriness on N64 was due to a process known as "dithering". It made the screen have a sort of watery effect all over, mainly used as a primitive form of anti-aliasing. It's one of the many reasons why I find it very difficult to go back to N64 games these days.
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Post by GamerL on Nov 22, 2014 6:39:11 GMT -5
The blurriness on N64 was due to a process known as "dithering". It made the screen have a sort of watery effect all over, mainly used as a primitive form of anti-aliasing. It's one of the many reasons why I find it very difficult to go back to N64 games these days. I've only dipped my toe into N64 emulation but I'm assuming emulators would take care of that?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2014 6:40:35 GMT -5
Not as such, since N64 games emulate poorly for some odd reason. Plus you kind of need to get a USB adapter for a legitimate N64 controller, as it's a bear to map the buttons to a more modern pad.
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Post by GamerL on Nov 22, 2014 6:42:51 GMT -5
Not as such, since N64 games emulate poorly for some odd reason. Plus you kind of need to get a USB adapter for a legitimate N64 controller, as it's a bear to map the buttons to a more modern pad. Yeah the controller thing is why I've only "dipped my toe" into N64 emulation so far, it can get confusing.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2014 6:45:42 GMT -5
It's that damn Z button. Throws everything off. Otherwise you could just map C-Right and C-Up to L2 and R2.
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Post by Dee Liteyears on Nov 22, 2014 8:18:54 GMT -5
The graphics differences between the PS1 and N64 were weird, the N64's graphics certainly looked more "solid" but they were also blurrier, the PS1's graphics were more stuttery and pixelated but also seemed to look sharper, this might have been due to CD vs cartridges? (keep in mind I'm going by memories of playing games on the actual consoles on old CRTs, not however they look today with emulators) The PS1 could also have bonus CD rom tech goodies like CGI cutscenes and other videos that were always great mood setters or good ways to tell the story that the N64 couldn't do. So in my opinion the differences between the two are unique enough that they kinda cancel each other out and neither really "wins" in the graphics department. to quote TVTropes: tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/UsefulNotes/Nintendo64Actually dithering is what you see on the PSX if you look closely when it applies shading to the Polygons
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Post by 🧀Son of Suzy Creamcheese🧀 on Nov 22, 2014 10:59:22 GMT -5
Definitely see what you mean about the difference between models on PS1 and N64. Considering that Nintendo's system launched well over two years after Sony's, it stands to reason that the N64 would be capable of putting more polygons on screen at a time. Truly, though, that fact just makes the PS1's accomplishments all the more impressive to me. Developers did so much with so little on Sony's little gray box. Still, I have a difficult time buying into the idea that the high points on N64 were uniformly better than on PS1. N64 had nothing close to MGS1, RE1, Vagrant Story, FFT, SotN, Clock Tower, Persona 2, etc, etc. No doubt this just comes down to preference, but the limited storage capacity of N64 cartridges meant your adventures were, by and large, much more limited in scope on Nintendo's system. Even for as classic as Ocarina of Time is, I really wouldn't suggest that the N64 is essential at all. More of an oddity along the lines of the Jaguar or 3DO. I say "along the lines", but it was nowhere near as bad as those two. Just not something to hunt down unless you're really determined to experience that portion of gaming history for yourself. Of course, no offense meant by any of this. Like a lot of people, though, I grew up in a Nintendo house for the most part. Even now, nearly 20 years later, I'm still feeling burned over the misstep that was the N64. Well of course that's just my opinion. OoT, Starfox 64, F-Zero X, Paper Mario, Banjo-Kazooie, Smash Bros... most of my favorite PS1 titles can't compete with those games, as cliché as some of those picks are. And I would argue those titles are essential for any gamer, making the N64 essential. Although, again, the PS1 has the larger library, and I really enjoy all the 2D titles that are available on the system. It's certainly not Nintendo's high point, though, and the library is a serious step down from the SNES days. I do have to say that despite the graphics being more blurry, they aged much better. In fact, I'd say it's because of the blurry-ness (anti-aliasing?).
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Post by The Great Klaid on Nov 22, 2014 12:52:13 GMT -5
Yeah, I don't if outside of nostalgia I'd remember the N64. Well, and Ocarina. I even just gave mine to a friend as a Christmas present, because I never really played it. But, I play a lot of RPGs.
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Post by zilliont on Nov 22, 2014 15:49:30 GMT -5
Hmm, weird. I've always thought that dithering was what was used on Genesis and Saturn games to simulate transparency - i.e. meshes of colored/uncolored pixels that looked transparent on CRTs.
Also, since we're comparing early polygonal graphics, can we talk about the Saturn's capabilities? If programmed correctly, 3D games on it can look pretty good, striking the perfect balance between the PS1's long draw distances and the N64's more defined polygons and structures. But as we all know, SEGA's 32-bit console was a total bitch to develop or even port to, so few companies were dedicated enough to create expansive polygonal games for it, with most of them remaining Japan-only. NiGHTS Into Dreams is still one of my favorite 3D games of all time, particularly because of its trippyness/colorfulness and complex arcade-y gameplay.
And let's not forget about the 3DO and Jaguar. Maybe even the SEGA Virtua Proccessor and Super FX too. :V
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2014 16:05:17 GMT -5
Interesting. I could have sworn it was dithering that made stuff blurry on the N64, because I remember the instructors going over it in college. Maybe I'm just misremembering, though. Not the first time!
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Post by Weasel on Nov 22, 2014 16:19:56 GMT -5
Dithering is actually a pretty general-purpose term, where graphics are concerned. It simply describes the act of stippling and meshing pixels of different colors together, either to simulate a grittier texture, to fake translucency, or to produce new colors through the video signal. The Genesis and Saturn use dithering primarily for fake translucency and color-mixing (see especially the waterfalls in Sonic 2, the rave club in Streets of Rage 3, most of Panzer Dragoon, and everything about Zero Tolerance).
That said, despite the Playstation supporting 16.7 million colors on screen PLUS real hardware translucency, you'd think it would have no business dithering things...but it turns out, it does. Granted, you're more likely to see dithering effects on older titles like Tobal No.1 or on the window backgrounds in Final Fantasy VII, but pay close attention to the lighting effects in games like Metal Gear Solid or the floor textures in Jumping Flash. Dithering is used to give the lighting more granularity and smoothness without overly taxing the GPU with hundreds of different light levels.
I'm a bit off the point, I've noticed...the Nintendo 64 didn't really have much business doing dithering, either. From what I notice, most of the N64's trademark "swampiness" comes from its hardware-mandated full screen anti-aliasing. While I'm reasonably sure the N64 had the capability to disable said anti-aliasing, most games don't seem to bother (in fact, I wonder if it's one of those features that Nintendo "forgot" to document, like how Smash Bros 3DS disables Miiverse while it's running to save memory...), which probably contributes to 50% of the N64 library's typical frame rate issues.
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