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Post by TΛPETRVE on May 11, 2017 9:41:22 GMT -5
Ziggurat was a valiant first effort back when it was new, but it is easily outclassed e.g. by Immortal Redneck's much more elaborate room design. Sadly that game on the other hand suffers from absolutely atrocious combat. And by that I mean even worse than Strafe.
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Post by Bobinator on May 11, 2017 10:01:48 GMT -5
I just wish somebody would find a way to make Oblidge run inside a source port of Doom. For those unaware, Oblidge makes random levels for Doom, and they're usually pretty decent. Unfortunately, you have to run it separate from Doom, so if the two could be combined together, that would basically make Strafe useless. If only.
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Post by Elvin Atombender on May 12, 2017 14:00:07 GMT -5
I'm sad to see that the game is apparently not that good. The way you describe the gameplay really doesn't fit what the trailers showed off at all... I guess this is another example of how trailers can be misleading as to what the actual game will turn out to be like. Me too. I've nothing against roguelites in general and I quite liked Ziggurat. But sadly Strafe looks mediocre in every department and it's another sad case of style over substance. The developers should consider spending less on trailers and more on the game itself next time.
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Post by alphex on May 13, 2017 23:22:26 GMT -5
Can't say I miss that part of the 90s. The trailer's also trying a bit too much to be edgy. See above. Guess who was right all along??? (HINT: IT'S ME) Although this one seems to be a bit more specific in its clairvoanyce: Instead we have another roguelike game disguising as a nineties FPS without any kind of the amazing level design, fun deathmatch or coop or the basic general design of the gameplay as it used to be back then.
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Post by eatersthemanfool on May 14, 2017 0:22:33 GMT -5
Yep. Let's make it look like crap. That's what people liked about Quake, right?
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Post by elektrolurch on May 16, 2017 7:20:31 GMT -5
Honestly, after seeing and reading a view reviews- I think the visuals are pretty cool. I would love if more games went for a mid-to-late-ninties low-poly look...... And they are not the game's problem. The mechanics and, obviously, the level design seem where it stumbles and falls. Kinda sad.
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Post by 🧀Son of Suzy Creamcheese🧀 on May 16, 2017 13:59:31 GMT -5
Yep. Let's make it look like crap. That's what people liked about Quake, right? That's one of the things I liked about Quake.
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Post by GamerL on May 16, 2017 15:46:40 GMT -5
Yep. Let's make it look like crap. That's what people liked about Quake, right? But Quake looks amazing for 1996. The problem with so many of these games that go for a retro graphics style is they go by people's memory of what games looked like and not the reality, so you'll find they actually look worse than the old games they're trying to emulate. Take for example all those pixel art games, many of them look worse than many actual 16 bit titles because people think "big chunky pixels" is how it was done, as if they only played these games through emulators with no filters, forgetting that in the context of the early 90s, playing them on CRT screens, you didn't see big chunky pixels. As far as 3D throwback graphics go I'm not sure Strafe pulls it off, if I was making a 3D game with an old school style I would probably have intentionally blocky character models but still have high res textures, Strafe reminds me more of Minecraft than it does an old FPS.
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Post by elektrolurch on May 17, 2017 5:24:11 GMT -5
Yep. Let's make it look like crap. That's what people liked about Quake, right? But Quake looks amazing for 1996. The problem with so many of these games that go for a retro graphics style is they go by people's memory of what games looked like and not the reality, so you'll find they actually look worse than the old games they're trying to emulate. Take for example all those pixel art games, many of them look worse than many actual 16 bit titles because people think "big chunky pixels" is how it was done, as if they only played these games through emulators with no filters, forgetting that in the context of the early 90s, playing them on CRT screens, you didn't see big chunky pixels. As far as 3D throwback graphics go I'm not sure Strafe pulls it off, if I was making a 3D game with an old school style I would probably have intentionally blocky character models but still have high res textures, Strafe reminds me more of Minecraft than it does an old FPS. Quake graphics were AMAZING for 1996, but the whole is aesthetic is very dark,and, yeah, kind of looks like crap- which, for me, is kind of what makes it so great... But that's a matter of taste,off course. That being said... There are many, many, many retro faux 8Bit and still quite a few faux 16 bit games that look AMAZING- just think of ShovelKnight Adventures or Owlboy for respective prime examples. With retro 3D-games.....I can't really think of any that emulate the way old FPSes looked.Please, if someone knows one, PLEASE TELL ME ABOUT IT!!! I think one of the problems is that there was no universal way FPSes post-Quake 1 looked in the latter 90ies, I mean with the tons of different 3D acceleration cards, people got widely different experiences. With earlier sprite-based FPSes- I would love if someone made an FPS with sprites which are still pixely, but not as pixely as the ones of vanilla Doom....... And- I like how minecraft looks, I really,really do, but yeah, it does not really fit an FPS that wants to evoke the nostalgia from lovers of quake...
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Post by eatersthemanfool on May 17, 2017 6:55:13 GMT -5
I remember. I was there.
Quake was absolutely amazing at the time because there had never been anything done like it before. ESPECIALLY if you had a voodoo card because it ran slightly faster and had higher res textures.
The level design and level aesthetic holds up well today. The enemy models, though, not so much.
But anyway, my point is that Strafe seems to be focused on the low poly models and low res textures without actually providing the kind of solid gameplay that quake had.
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Post by elektrolurch on May 17, 2017 8:02:13 GMT -5
But anyway, my point is that Strafe seems to be focused on the low poly models and low res textures without actually providing the kind of solid gameplay that quake had. That's the thing-people who used a 3DFX card had quite a different look- filtered, higher res textures, etc- a look which for me is also quite iconic of this aera, but is certainly very different to software rendering.... so it's difficult to say what really defined the look of the FPSes of this time...
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Post by Weasel on May 17, 2017 10:06:02 GMT -5
Even accounting for the presence (or lack) of 3D accelerator hardware, Strafe doesn't look like it had nearly the same amount of love put into the raw artwork that Quake or even games on older engines had. Yes, Quake's models appear blocky and jerky to modern eyes, but a closer look reveals that they put an awful lot of effort into keeping the textures sharp and detailed, and the models proportionally consistent. Strafe's models don't look to have the same kind of consistency, and textures are all over the place - some bright and contrasting, some flat, some unusually detailed, and some just look messy.
I think it's this constant inconsistency that bothers me the most. A lot of parts of this game don't look like they belong together. They look like the newbie mod-maker's first attempt at a Total Conversion mod, with resources taken from everywhere with no regard to whether they fit together or not. Blood effects everywhere because they just figured out how to increase the gib count with a one-line QuakeC patch, or something. (I know this isn't Quake engine. That's not the point.)
I think I've figured it out. Strafe isn't a game that evokes memories of Quake. It's a game that evokes memories of Quake mods. The kind of mods you'd get off those shovelware discs by WizardWorks or HeadGames.
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Post by elektrolurch on May 18, 2017 6:28:39 GMT -5
I think I've figured it out. Strafe isn't a game that evokes memories of Quake. It's a game that evokes memories of Quake mods. The kind of mods you'd get off those shovelware discs by WizardWorks or HeadGames. LOL. I haven't played Strafe myself yet, but I know what kinda Quake mods you are talking about and, judging from Strafe's gameplay videos, I... think you are really right:D
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Post by eatersthemanfool on May 18, 2017 6:29:23 GMT -5
Even accounting for the presence (or lack) of 3D accelerator hardware, Strafe doesn't look like it had nearly the same amount of love put into the raw artwork that Quake or even games on older engines had. Yes, Quake's models appear blocky and jerky to modern eyes, but a closer look reveals that they put an awful lot of effort into keeping the textures sharp and detailed, and the models proportionally consistent. Strafe's models don't look to have the same kind of consistency, and textures are all over the place - some bright and contrasting, some flat, some unusually detailed, and some just look messy. I think it's this constant inconsistency that bothers me the most. A lot of parts of this game don't look like they belong together. They look like the newbie mod-maker's first attempt at a Total Conversion mod, with resources taken from everywhere with no regard to whether they fit together or not. Blood effects everywhere because they just figured out how to increase the gib count with a one-line QuakeC patch, or something. (I know this isn't Quake engine. That's not the point.) I think I've figured it out. Strafe isn't a game that evokes memories of Quake. It's a game that evokes memories of Quake mods. The kind of mods you'd get off those shovelware discs by WizardWorks or HeadGames. Yea I think you've got it about right.
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Post by nerdybat on May 18, 2017 13:08:32 GMT -5
I just wish somebody would find a way to make Oblidge run inside a source port of Doom. For those unaware, Oblidge makes random levels for Doom, and they're usually pretty decent. Unfortunately, you have to run it separate from Doom, so if the two could be combined together, that would basically make Strafe useless. If only. The thing about Oblidge is that levels created in it weren't really that fun to begin with, especially compared to what actual designers and modders had to offer, which underlines the fundamental problem of Strafe - it's very hard to successfully combine the mechanics of very "design-based" shooters like Doom and Quake with procedurally generated environment. Not saying that combining roguelikes with first-person shooters is a bad idea in itself, and there are some actually good examples available (Hellgate:London, Immortal Redneck, Borderlands to some extent), it's just that Quake-esque mechanics and "rogue-lite" random elements don't really fit that well together - Quake is all about pure skill and reflexes, while roguelikes are all about luck and resourcefulness. In case of Strafe, there are many elements that would be passable in any other Rogue-FPS (inprecise guns, huge player hitbox, repetitive enemies), but just won't cut it in any remotely good arena shooter, which Strafe tries so hard to be like. (but that's only my opinion, so yeah)
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