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Post by Sturat on Dec 22, 2015 18:24:25 GMT -5
I hope Snoke turns out to actually be CG in-universe, kind of like the Wizard of Oz. That's the only explanation I'll accept for how bad he looks next to all of those wonderful practical effects.
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Post by sabbacc108 on Dec 23, 2015 3:17:39 GMT -5
I hope Snoke turns out to actually be CG in-universe, kind of like the Wizard of Oz. That's the only explanation I'll accept for how bad he looks next to all of those wonderful practical effects. Same!
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Post by Joseph Joestar on Dec 23, 2015 9:30:56 GMT -5
So is whatshisname, Gollum, playing himself once more? I don't have a lot of respect for the guy - he talks shit about other motion actors and acts like he's God's gift to CGI but he's got zero versatility.
Also for those who have seen it, is Rey a mary sue? I know there's a lot of feminazis and MRAs whining about the topic on Twitter.
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Post by lurker on Dec 23, 2015 10:03:38 GMT -5
I can't imagine she'd more of one than Episode 1 Anakin.
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Post by moran on Dec 23, 2015 10:22:11 GMT -5
So is whatshisname, Gollum, playing himself once more? I don't have a lot of respect for the guy - he talks shit about other motion actors and acts like he's God's gift to CGI but he's got zero versatility. Also for those who have seen it, is Rey a mary sue? I know there's a lot of feminazis and MRAs whining about the topic on Twitter. Serkis's role equates to Palpatine in Empire with a few more facial expressions. And honestly, the big deal made about him, Gwendolyn Christie, and Lupita Nyong'o being featured in the movie proved to be a bit much given how their roles turned out. I don't think she's a Mary Sue at all in it. She's a perfectly fine analog for an unexpected hero along the lines that Luke and Anakin were supposed to be. And given the suspected lineage, her talents are more than justified. And anyone claiming Mary Sue likes to complain just to hear themselves talk IMO.
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Post by JDarkside on Dec 23, 2015 11:06:21 GMT -5
Does anyone even know what a Mary Sue is anymore? It's supposed to be an author insert, which makes no sense in this context. If you mean it as short hand for a female character with agency and development and think that's bad, your opinion isn't worth the time of day.
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Post by Joseph Joestar on Dec 23, 2015 12:45:37 GMT -5
I wouldn't call them a mary sue in that case, just "unrealistic."
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Post by Sturat on Dec 23, 2015 13:28:26 GMT -5
I think the general complaint is that she's too perfect, kind of like Wesley Crusher from Star Trek. I can understand why people might feel that way, but I think her extreme competence feels a lot more justified because of her harsh childhood where she had to be resourceful or die, and more importantly, she just feels more likeable and relatable than other characters who are "too perfect." She seems frightened, confident, surprised, happy, and proud at all the right times, and she struggles with difficult choices like selling the droid for food or holding out hope that her family will return for her some day. (Personally, I hope she isn't related to any of the other characters and it turns out that the force grew in her as a result of her kindness and determination.)
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Post by Deleted on Dec 23, 2015 13:59:34 GMT -5
The Force has never done that to my knowledge. When Anakin was created through the Force, it was only because Palpatine and Plagueis performed a ritual to do it.
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Post by moran on Dec 23, 2015 14:02:01 GMT -5
While the relations part would seem like a cheap out, it would stay in line with Star Wars' overall theme of family. And it doesn't bother me either way.
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Post by lurker on Dec 23, 2015 14:03:18 GMT -5
I think it may have more to do with her upbringing.
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Post by ReyVGM on Dec 23, 2015 14:28:54 GMT -5
Come on now, it's kind of ridiculous that a spoiler thread has to hide its spoilers...
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Post by Discoalucard on Dec 23, 2015 15:06:53 GMT -5
This is a good post on NeoGAF breaking down what a Mary Sue is and how it (doesn't) apply to The Force Awakens: www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=190242008&postcount=12101It's just because someone with a large Twitter following used it and taught the word to a bunch of people who don't comprehend what it means, especially in circles where it's defined as "competent female character". Even if you ignore the stuff she does wrong, there are much worse examples of a character's actions exceeding their abilities all throughout the saga, the most egregious being a 9 year old piloting a ship and blowing up a bad guy space station, with the primarily explanation being "space magic". (To be fair, this has also caught a lot of shit over the years.) That's part of the explanation for Rey's abilities too but it also very obviously comes from her living a harsh existence as a scavenger and picking up a number of skills just to survive. It reminds me of this one guy I knew in college who didn't like Star Wars in general because he felt that the idea of a bunch of ragtag rebels infiltrating and blowing up the Death Star was too unbelievable. Who the hell cares, it's a blockbuster movie. It was a really unwise choice for a director with this much experience to end the film with. It's not like people are going to be sitting around biting their nails, asking each other, "What's going to happen NEXT?" We'll all sit on our asses for three years and see the next movie in due time. This doesn't really add to the hype at all, and really just serves as an unnatural stopping point for the narrative. The central premise of this movie is "make people forget the prequels and give fans what they want". Luke's appearance is teased so much that it doesn't really lose anything from his appearance and everything to gain with, again, fan service, while still keeping the crux of their encounter on a cliffhanger. It is the movie's second (and arguably more important) climax and it would feel empty without it. The thing that bothered me the most was probably how Finn managed himself quite well with the lightsaber against a trained force user, despite lightsabers supposedly being Jedi-exclusive expert weapons that require lots of practice to use effectively... and Finn wasn’t that great a stormtrooper, either. I was kind of thinking the same thing, except after mulling it over, he's not really that effective with it. He holds his own in as much as he doesn't get killed, but he's certainly no expert. I suppose he could've done with a little more comic flailing considering the character's other slapstick moments.
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Post by Joseph Joestar on Dec 23, 2015 16:06:31 GMT -5
I've never really thought of it as a female thing - the worst, most offensive Mary Sue in history is Wesley Crusher. Ironically, his actor is just as insufferable IRL.
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Post by Discoalucard on Dec 23, 2015 16:13:06 GMT -5
It's a gendered term but an equivalent exists (Gary Stu).
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