|
Post by Elvin Atombender on Oct 16, 2016 8:03:17 GMT -5
Shmups are for the ultra hardcore now with all those bullet hell shooters. I stopped playing them because of that. Exactly this. The only kind of shooters I dig these days are of the overhead variety such as Geometry Wars. But I completely fell out with scrolling vertical shooters.
|
|
|
Post by DrakeDwarf on Oct 16, 2016 8:41:50 GMT -5
Flying Hamster is definitely on the casual side and seems to have sold well, unless I misunderstand the definition of shump.
|
|
|
Post by 🧀Son of Suzy Creamcheese🧀 on Oct 16, 2016 9:16:56 GMT -5
Yes. And also what ReyVGM said. I stick to the classics, personally (preferably of the Konami or Horizontal variety). Bullethells can be fun from time to time, but they start to get way too repetitive before long and a bunch of bullet patterns will never be a proper replacement for actual level design.
|
|
|
Post by ZenithianHero on Oct 16, 2016 10:21:56 GMT -5
Only game I played on one continue was Twinbee, because you couldn't continue on the 3DS classic version I played. I am more likely to get far on those single screen shooters like Galaga than anything.
|
|
|
Post by Bobinator on Oct 16, 2016 11:17:37 GMT -5
Personally, I feel like the worst crime of the SHMUP community is making discussion about games like Tyrian and other Euro-SHMUPs so freaking hard to find. Doesn't help that it's a super rare genre these days, either.
|
|
|
Post by klausien on Oct 16, 2016 12:00:56 GMT -5
Shmups are for the ultra hardcore now with all those bullet hell shooters. I stopped playing them because of that. Many bullhell shmups are far easier than classic shooters... They just deceptively seem hard while the mechanics are much more modern and in the players favor. I mean, omg, Zanac on nes? Flying/Sky Shark, omg that game makes me rage. From Capcom's 1943 to the beginnings of the Raiden series, forget it... maybe some of the Gradius style Konami games. Oh! R-type just blows me up like first few screens xD Those are soo much harder than a modern bullethell, trust me. Unless you're like on some ultra high difficulty, it's nowhere near as brutal. Aoi speaks the truth. The bullet curtains look impossible, but the hotboxes of the bullets and your ship are only a few pixels. Older shooters had large ships with large hitboxes, fewer, faster bullets that were aimed directly at your ship, and environmental hazards. The enemies also tended to be bullet sponges, unlike the popcorn enemies of today. Newer shooters are often quite forgiving on default difficulty; particularly in games with bullet cancelling. Mushihimesama Futari comes to mind. Some practice with a good arcade stick increases enjoyment exponentially. The bullet patterns can be also quite beautiful visually. I love the audio-visual aspects of shooters in general. It is why the genre is my favorite, and why shooters make up a sizeable chunk of my collection. The emergence of the shooter tax, online play, and thirst for hundreds of hours of content by mainstream gamers has doomed an already niche genre. It's a real shame for the fans and makers alike. Back to topic, the narcissistic 1CC cult changed fandom, but I often credit feed shooters and beat 'em ups to relax. The bullet hell shooters that many fear create incredibly meditative zen moments of pure reaction. To each their own, but dismissing the modern danmaku era led by Cave is narrow-minded. Anyone with a 360 and even a passing interest in shooting should buy Mushihimesama Futari and spring for the Black Label DLC. It is absolutely an essential game in the 360 library. My only caveat is that the 360 pad is not sufficient, so you will need a twitchier alternative.
|
|
|
Post by klausien on Oct 16, 2016 12:38:08 GMT -5
Personally, I feel like the worst crime of the SHMUP community is making discussion about games like Tyrian and other Euro-SHMUPs so freaking hard to find. Doesn't help that it's a super rare genre these days, either. No offense meant, but positive conversations about Euroshmups outside of Britain have always been a white elephant. The graphical style is always interesting, but even the best Euroshmups usually suffer from one or more of the following sins: bullet sponge enemies that are much too fast and/or numerous and move in unavoidable patterns, unfairly underpowered player weapons, low player ship speeds and/or the dreaded momentum, suicide bullets, bullets fired from behind and/or off-screen, speedy bullets in random, unavoidable swarms, bullets that are too small to see, excessively long stages, no checkpoints, no continues, unclear areas that blend in with the background and kill on contact, etc. To be fair, all shooters can be criticized for having at least one of these problems, but Euroshmups seem to be designed around them - making for an infuriatingly frustrating experience for all the wrong reasons. They have style to spare, but play like games made in a high school level video game programming class. The screenshots and often Roger Dean-inspired art are always so tantalizing, but I have yet to enjoy any Euroshmup that isn't a 3D game made by Jeff Minter. That said, I would absolutely love to be proven wrong. Classic European games do get trashed too often, but the criticisms are largely justifiable. Euro game enthusiasts are a rare breed who deserve respect, but they fight a losing battle largely fueled by nostalgia. Golden age and 8-Bit enthusiasts will often defend bad games in their favored system's library for similar reasons. On the other hand, the 1CC Cult has become a bane against its own genre, and led to this topic in the first place.
|
|
|
Post by nerdybat on Oct 16, 2016 13:11:18 GMT -5
PC shmups are usually very accessible compared to console ones, both old and new. Platypus, Jets'n'Guns, Tyrian, etc. Even the harder ones (like Blue Revolver) either have a forgiving save/checkpoint system, or some other means to make the game easier to beat. For example, Touhou games, which are some of the hardest original PC shmups out there, are quite easy even compared to more forgiving CAVE/Raizing/Eighting titles. So yeah, if going for casual shmup experience, I'll suggest to check some PC titles just for that.
|
|
|
Post by The Great Klaid on Oct 16, 2016 13:54:39 GMT -5
Yes. And also what ReyVGM said. I stick to the classics, personally (preferably of the Konami or Horizontal variety). Bullethells can be fun from time to time, but they start to get way too repetitive before long and a bunch of bullet patterns will never be a proper replacement for actual level design. You know like Gradius level design, where you fly through a corridor and maybe the corridor splits. That's what I love about Bullet Hell shooters. The patterns are pretty dynamic. And if you plan on 1cc runs you have to get pretty good at the mechanics of moving your ship.
|
|
|
Post by 🧀Son of Suzy Creamcheese🧀 on Oct 16, 2016 14:41:42 GMT -5
The Great KlaidWell, I'm not saying Gradius or such has brilliant level design per se, but there's much more going on as far as variety and threats are concerned, and it's especially nice if a game has actual terrain. When I'm at the fourth of fifth stage of a bullethell I'm like, 'yeah, yeah, I get it'.
|
|
|
Post by lurker on Oct 16, 2016 16:10:20 GMT -5
Wish there were more like Aero Fighters/Sonic Wings with varied casts.
|
|
|
Post by Woody Alien on Oct 16, 2016 16:31:09 GMT -5
The bullet patterns can be also quite beautiful visually. I love the audio-visual aspects of shooters in general. It is why the genre is my favorite, and why shooters make up a sizeable chunk of my collection. The emergence of the shooter tax, online play, and thirst for hundreds of hours of content by mainstream gamers has doomed an already niche genre. It's a real shame for the fans and makers alike. Back to topic, the narcissistic 1CC cult changed fandom, but I often credit feed shooters and beat 'em ups to relax. The bullet hell shooters that many fear create incredibly meditative zen moments of pure reaction. The only shmup that made me feel like that was Ikaruga, and even then I played it just a few times. But maybe there's something wrong with me, since the few times I played bullet hells it was as if my brain couldn't properly process all that flashing stuff coming at me, so I had to quit several times.
|
|
|
Post by toei on Oct 16, 2016 17:08:01 GMT -5
The bullet patterns can be also quite beautiful visually. I love the audio-visual aspects of shooters in general. It is why the genre is my favorite, and why shooters make up a sizeable chunk of my collection. The emergence of the shooter tax, online play, and thirst for hundreds of hours of content by mainstream gamers has doomed an already niche genre. It's a real shame for the fans and makers alike. Back to topic, the narcissistic 1CC cult changed fandom, but I often credit feed shooters and beat 'em ups to relax. The bullet hell shooters that many fear create incredibly meditative zen moments of pure reaction. The only shmup that made me feel like that was Ikaruga, and even then I played it just a few times. But maybe there's something wrong with me, since the few times I played bullet hells it was as if my brain couldn't properly process all that flashing stuff coming at me, so I had to quit several times. I don't know if that's what you mean, but sometimes when there's too much stuff going on on-screen you can sort of panic and freeze in front of the apparent diffuclty, which leads to a quick loss. When you calm down and take a more methodical approach you often find that it's a lot more playable than you thought. I'm not just talking about shmups here, but any intense moment in game.
|
|
|
Post by 320x240 on Oct 16, 2016 17:18:49 GMT -5
The Great Klaid Well, I'm not saying Gradius or such has brilliant level design per se, but there's much more going on as far as variety and threats are concerned, and it's especially nice if a game has actual terrain. When I'm at the fourth of fifth stage of a bullethell I'm like, 'yeah, yeah, I get it'. There is level design in other things beside terrain. One of the strenghts of the early Cave games (and Toaplan games long before that (and gallery shooters long before that)) is the placement and movement of enemies and how they interact to form one big, constantly changing enemy. With that said, I prefer ground based shmups myself, and the inclusion of terrain (in most of them) is an important reason why. Come to think of it, I very much enjoy terrain in vertically oriented shmups, like in Space Megaforce on the Snes.
|
|
|
Post by silentstorm on Oct 16, 2016 17:26:00 GMT -5
Some bullet hell games are really hard though, playing an CAVE game in the hardest difficulty is impossible to me, i can't even get close to the last stage in games like Mushihimesama, which is why i hate it when shmups outright forbid you from fighting against bosses or other content if you are not good enough, there are some shmups that i absolutely have to credit feed to get to the end and not seeing everything just because i do not have enough free time to memorize everything until i can 1CC the game is just a stupid idea.
I still have an easier time with bullet hells, mostly because they have mechanics to facilitate dodging or ignoring bullets and because they do not have other elements like fire and such from games like Gradius, so i only have to care about the bullets and not on bullets and other things like in the classic style of shmups like Gradius and R-Type.
Seriously, i generally last longer on bullet hell games, maybe i just have an easier time processing lots of bullets than i have processing bullets and the level itself trying to kill me?
|
|