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Post by Neo Rasa on Jul 31, 2007 21:05:38 GMT -5
That said, while the site is called Hardcore Gaming 101, general accessibility should be paramount. If I had to choose one I'd rather say arcade than Neo Geo. The Neo Geo IS unique, and to that end that releases like Art of Fighting Anthology are a gateway to the Neo Geo itself.
Ideally though, I would simply list the Neo Geo home system as its name, AES. So for something like Art of Fighting 3 I would list the systems it has been released on as Arcade, AES, Neo Geo CD, PS2.
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Post by Sturat on Jul 31, 2007 21:25:45 GMT -5
Two problems with that:
I think it's a lot more reasonable to say "Neo-Geo" and expect readers to know Neo-Geo games are released for both the arcade and home, than it is expect them to know what AES means.
It's redundant to say arcade and AES because, as far as I know, all AES games were also released in the arcade.
I strongly believe listing Neo-Geo carts as "Neo-Geo" would be the most accurate, simple, and understandable way to do things. (Even though you'd have to say something like "Neo-Geo (arcade only)" for MVS exclusives like Super Dodge Ball.)
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Post by Neo Rasa on Jul 31, 2007 21:33:47 GMT -5
How can it be redundant to say both arcade and AES separately when something has been released on both platforms. Also just as there are MVS exclusive games there are a few AES exclusive releases as well.
Regardless, it's silly for you on the one hand to say that the Neo Geo system should be mentioned so people can learn about it and then on the other hand expect people to know that Neo Geo games are often released on both the MVS and AES hardware. What you're saying is akin to saying "NEC" instead of saying "PC-88, Turbo Graphx." There cannot possibly be a more appropriate designation for a Neo Geo home game than Neo Geo AES because that's the name of the system.
Neo Geo AES should definitely warrant its own entry if one is going to mention arcade releases, as the site deals not only with software developed for the Neo Geo family of platforms but for a vast variety of arcade boards.
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Post by Ganelon on Jul 31, 2007 23:49:35 GMT -5
Also just as there are MVS exclusive games there are a few AES exclusive releases as well. Official releases? I only recall Last Hope. Anyway, this name thing is just silly. First off, you have the company name SNK (which is why the NEC analogy doesn't work). Then you have NEO-GEO, which refers to who knows what. You have MVS for arcade titles but are left with either AES or NGH for home, neither of which are consistent names, although NEO-GEO AES has been officially adopted (perhaps due to it being used by the fanbase for so long). Nothing really needs to be changed since you're not really adding anything to the article; the statement is Kurt's personal touch and a harmless observation.
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Post by Neo Rasa on Aug 2, 2007 2:14:34 GMT -5
This name thing isn't silly at all, there should be some uniformity to how games for various platforms are listed and it's definitely something worthy of discussion. Tensions rising slightly is no reason to turn the thread into a debate on analogy precision or to dismiss the topic. I do have to reiterate the validity of the acronym AES though. Advanced Entertainment System is the name of the Neo Geo homs system. I don't see how any designation can be more appropriate than the name on the system/packaging itself.
I see no harm in mentioning which specific Neo Geo hardware a game was released on. It's as unobtrusive as listing Neo Geo (MVS) or Neo Geo (MVS, AES, CD). Everyone wins this way. The Neo Geo brand is still prominent and those that realize how great the games are will want to know what them thar acronyms stand for, opening the door to them learning about the various SNK platforms.
In a climate where many people know of Neo Geo games but don't even know a home system existed because their only experience is through emulation, or vice versa for people who knew of a system called Neo Geo but didn't know it had an arcade presence, this seems like the best way to do it.
It's notable that this article originally mentioned that Art of Anthology is the best way to play the games next to MAME. I found this to be almost offensive in the editing process. However, it made me look into the situation more and realize that at this point it would be more effective to have a small victory and see someone purchase a compilation than for them to see the price tag for a Neo Geo and download a bunch of roms instead.
That's not to say the Neo Geo isn't a valid option for these, it's of course going to be the best overall if money permits. The alternatives should be given equal coverage though because they will be the only entry point for many people, and I'd rather people play the games above all else.
As far as the text itself goes, it's easy to see where both Discoalucard and sturat are coming from. In general it can be difficult to strike the right compromise between trying to ease newcomers into accessing these awesome games financially while still imparting an appreciation and reverence for their first incarnations and the systems they originated on.
Personally I slant towards doing the former because I'd rather people buy the games at all. I know some people I would never have been able to convince to get into NEC systems if they handn't downloaded Bloody Wolf and Ninja Spirit on the Wii. Likewise for the Neo Geo by convincing people to try out the games by picking up much cheaper ports of them made for more common systems.
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Post by zzz on Aug 2, 2007 2:56:20 GMT -5
That comment about Art of Fighting Anthology being the best way to play the games was not mine.
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Post by Neo Rasa on Aug 2, 2007 9:50:15 GMT -5
Excellent.
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Post by zzz on Aug 2, 2007 10:16:05 GMT -5
What is excellent?
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Post by Neo Rasa on Aug 2, 2007 12:14:51 GMT -5
That you did not write such a thing.
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Post by Discoalucard on Aug 2, 2007 13:06:02 GMT -5
I wrote it because nothing about the PS2 port was addressed at all. My intention was simply to say that it's the best way to play them outside of emulation (which is obviously very easy and cheap), but ended up removing that part because it seemed to imply that the article was endorsing emulation over actually buying the game, which is definitely not what I intended. It's a sad fact that most people will just see that these games are easily piratable and skip even cheap legal releases, but I had still felt that needed to be clarified.
This is all a rather silly argument over semantics though. Labeling the Neo Geo platforms isn't like a site regulation or anything, it's just something I never kept consistent because I didn't feel it warranted that kind of attention. I think going forward I'll list them as "Arcade / Neo Geo" to keep things straight.
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Post by Sturat on Aug 2, 2007 16:14:19 GMT -5
I think "Arcade / Neo-Geo" would be a fine way of doing things. It's important to convey that Neo-Geo games are arcade-quality but aren't prohibitively expensive like, say, an Espgaluda board, because there are people who buy games for consoles but emulate "unattainable" arcade games. It's no more strange to buy Neo-Geo games than any of the other ones mentioned on this site, and "Arcade / Neo-Geo" would convey that, so thanks.
Rasa: I object to being called "silly." I never said I wanted to educate people about Neo-Geo. As you pointed out, I said the opposite: Hardcore gamers already know the basics about Neo-Geo systems.
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Post by Ganelon on Aug 2, 2007 19:26:12 GMT -5
This whole conversation is silly because it's really not a big deal to anybody except pedantic nitpickers who already know what context the phrase is being used in.
Note that the term "best" is subjective. Everyone will draw their own opinions about that, and in fact, it's a clever "option select" term. For example, I feel that the upscaled graphics make the games look a lot worse than the originals. But with my understanding, why would I even read the article for correct opinions anyway?
Even if I did, I'd see it mentioned and know that statement was referring to cost value (since the upscaling is mentioned in the article). In fact, you all realized that right away, which is why you're posting in the first place. And if you don't care about perfect graphics (the majority of people who'll be reading the page), then the PS2 has every other "best" covered.
AES isn't accurate at all since the NGCD includes the exact same words in the exact same spot. Is the NGCD an AES? Not by normal standards. And to put it off more, the CDZ doesn't include "Advanced Entertainment System;" uh, oh, it's suddently not an AES anymore? If SNK never officially endorsed it recently, I'd be still confused at to what I should call it; as it is, it's still inconsistent.
I do agree that specifying each variation of the Neo Geo is a pretty good idea. I'm glad you removed all mention of emulation; that has no place in a serious gaming article. I'd also still like to know what games were exclusive to the AES.
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Post by zzz on Aug 2, 2007 20:24:59 GMT -5
I am generally in agreement with Discoalucard. Neo-Geo IS a arcade hardware system. Neo-Geo AES is nothing more than a way to play it on your television. Mentioning Neo-Geo rather than just Arcade is simply not necessary.
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Post by Neo Rasa on Aug 2, 2007 20:31:44 GMT -5
Rasa: I object to being called "silly." I never said I wanted to educate people about Neo-Geo. As you pointed out, I said the opposite: Hardcore gamers already know the basics about Neo-Geo systems. I agree, my initial posts here were way too dismissive. Count me in for "Arcade / Neo Geo" being the way to go from now on too.
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Post by lionelritchie on Aug 4, 2007 17:12:21 GMT -5
The article says about Takuma in aof 1: " He was nameless in the original arcade game, but fans took to calling him "Mr. Karate". The name stuck and SNK later made his fannonized name official." This information is incorrect. In the original neogeo game, he's name was displayed as " " in the life bar, but when you played with him in 2p mode (second player would have to challenge the first player when he was at mr. karate's stage to make him and mr. big available in the character selection, try it out), the narrator will speak his name as MR.KARATE, as in "Jonh vs Mr Karate" or "Mr Karate vs Mr Karate". So he was already mr karate in the 1st game.
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