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Ketsui
Jun 16, 2010 15:36:51 GMT -5
Post by ryochan on Jun 16, 2010 15:36:51 GMT -5
See, I feel that that it kind of would. Credit feeding happens because people either don't know how to play the game, or simply feel they lack the skill to get better. I'd actually like to say, this is a very inaccurate statement. Even knowing how to play a game, and even though I can get better at them (before unlimited credits unlocked in Castle Shikigami 2 I was getting further and further with Kou on what credits I had, for example), I like to play shoot em ups for two simple facts: 1. I like to see the different things the game offers, and getting to the end allows me to see it all 2. To take a break from other styles of games sometimes I am not the sort of person who enjoys spending hours upon hours learning patterns. And in fact, I often forget several sets of patterns because I have short-term memory loss related to an illness. Honestly, and I know not everyone who plays shooters hardcore are like this, but I am getting a little tired of hearing that those who credit feed are playing the game all wrong and just generally being lazy. Some of us play certain styles of games for entirely different reasons than others, and I feel that should be respected.
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Ketsui
Jun 16, 2010 17:59:32 GMT -5
Post by brianc on Jun 16, 2010 17:59:32 GMT -5
See, I feel that that it kind of would. Credit feeding happens because people either don't know how to play the game, or simply feel they lack the skill to get better. I'd actually like to say, this is a very inaccurate statement. Even knowing how to play a game, and even though I can get better at them (before unlimited credits unlocked in Castle Shikigami 2 I was getting further and further with Kou on what credits I had, for example), I like to play shoot em ups for two simple facts: 1. I like to see the different things the game offers, and getting to the end allows me to see it all 2. To take a break from other styles of games sometimes I am not the sort of person who enjoys spending hours upon hours learning patterns. And in fact, I often forget several sets of patterns because I have short-term memory loss related to an illness. Honestly, and I know not everyone who plays shooters hardcore are like this, but I am getting a little tired of hearing that those who credit feed are playing the game all wrong and just generally being lazy. Some of us play certain styles of games for entirely different reasons than others, and I feel that should be respected. Using continues to see the levels can be helpful, but not going back after credit feeding can give a mistaken impression of the game. Also, in the case of games like R-Type and Gradius, it doesn't necessarily make the game easier. There are also some arcade style games like Metal Slug and a few shumps that not only let you continue right where you left off, but give you power ups upon continue. In that case, I definitely consider credit feeding to be like cheating.
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Ketsui
Jun 16, 2010 19:21:31 GMT -5
Post by kog3100edw on Jun 16, 2010 19:21:31 GMT -5
Ryochan, I always considered the term 'credit feeder' when used to describe gamers as referring to 'credit feeders who complain about length/difficulty/extras/etc'.
If someone credit feeds through a game to see through to the end, even if that is their predominant style of play, if they enjoy the game anyway and don't bitch about it, who is going to come against THEM?
There may be uber-shmuppers who are dismissive of that style for themselves, and that can manifest itself in sarcastic terms, but that's no different than fighting game players using the term 'scrub'. They sometimes lump all neophytes into that category even the ones who are genuinely sociable and good sports. It isn't quite FAIR exactly, but it isn't personal either. I've rarely seen a really pointed 'credit feeder' comment directed at a specific someone unless that person COMPLAINED... and the highest profile complainers are people reviewing the game.
If you love the genre and don't mind what a lot of mainstream players consider shortcomings, then 'credit feeder' doesn't really apply to you. Lots of hardcore players, in fact, credit feed. They'll SAY it is just to practice later patterns, but they all want to see what happens in the game too!
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Ketsui
Jun 16, 2010 19:23:53 GMT -5
Post by kimimi on Jun 16, 2010 19:23:53 GMT -5
I wouldn't call it cheating (after all, you're only using tools the game gives you), but I would say that without any additional framework such as a named score attack/survivial mode it can mistakenly give the impression that the game is easy or doesn't require any skill or have depth.
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Ketsui
Jun 17, 2010 14:59:44 GMT -5
Post by kog3100edw on Jun 17, 2010 14:59:44 GMT -5
Y'know what though? I support Kurt's article and respect what he'd like to see in shmup releases, but I'd go along with Ryochan thinking Kurt's reasons why people credit feed is too limiting. I gave one of those reasons in my previous post, level practice, and for myself I know I credit feed some games (usually with a 'one dollar' limit) because I DO have the skills, but rarely have the time it takes to practice. Skill alone frequently is not enough. Memorisation is probably the other shmup-critical skill, with some games requiring this a lot more than others.
Kimimi's post (and others) point to something shmuppers and other arcade-game players need to bear in mind. Personal responsibility. The tools to credit feed are there, but a player has to set a limits in his/her own mind to understand if they are abusing or misusing said tools. Back in the day, the fact that every push of the button for a credit was costing you money acted as a limit. Paying for a home video game now also imposes a cash cost on the player but NOW that's seen as a detriment for games you can credit feed.... at least by ignorant reviewers.
If a player buys a shooter, they need to bear in mind that they PAID the equivalent of a bunch of quarters into the dang thing. They might try parceling out those quarters in the same manner they would've in the old days before writing of the value of a shmup as too short or too simple.
Just becasue unlimited credits are available doesn't mean they HAVE to be used. If you use them, but understand the game wasn't designed that way, conducting yourself accordingly I don't see the problem.
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Ketsui
Jun 17, 2010 18:57:37 GMT -5
Post by justjustin on Jun 17, 2010 18:57:37 GMT -5
Credit feeding is a good way to see everything a game has to offer, but of course, seeing is nothing compared to experiencing it. Continuing is buying your way through a game-- takes no skill, learning, or repetition which are qualities that appeal to people who like shooters (and arcade games in general). Most importantly you don't improve, so there's no incentive to come back to it. But if all you want to do is see, then by all means power your way through with credits.
I credit feed games I'm only half interested it; if the game doesn't grab my attention but I still want to spend some time to see it through (but usually because I'm bored). There's no right way to play them, no special obligation or responsibility to avoid credit feeding; it simply comes naturally if it's a game you truly like and want to play for a long time.
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Ketsui
Jun 17, 2010 20:47:57 GMT -5
Post by ryochan on Jun 17, 2010 20:47:57 GMT -5
Credit feeding is a good way to see everything a game has to offer, but of course, seeing is nothing compared to experiencing it. Continuing is buying your way through a game-- takes no skill, learning, or repetition which are qualities that appeal to people who like shooters (and arcade games in general). Most importantly you don't improve, so there's no incentive to come back to it. But if all you want to do is see, then by all means power your way through with credits. Yet I think this isn't necessarily true either. I've credit-fed through games to see the endings, then sat down to replay them, with set limits on myself, because I enjoyed the game. I'm still experiencing it, I just do it a bit different then some people might. A good example of this might be Aerofighters. I've played through it before, and I've seen some of the endings (got more to see), but I still come back to the game. Same thing with King of Fighters, and others. Why? Because the play mechanics are fun and I enjoy it. I sometimes just goof off, other times I impose limits (such as 4 continues only, or only use X character without strikers). I guess the reason I commented is the sheer idea that I'm playing a game "wrong" just because I'm playing it a slight bit differently than someone else may, or differently than someone else considers "the right way." Does that make sense?
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Ketsui
Jun 17, 2010 22:16:17 GMT -5
Post by justjustin on Jun 17, 2010 22:16:17 GMT -5
Credit feeding is a good way to see everything a game has to offer, but of course, seeing is nothing compared to experiencing it. Continuing is buying your way through a game-- takes no skill, learning, or repetition which are qualities that appeal to people who like shooters (and arcade games in general). Most importantly you don't improve, so there's no incentive to come back to it. But if all you want to do is see, then by all means power your way through with credits. Yet I think this isn't necessarily true either. I've credit-fed through games to see the endings, then sat down to replay them, with set limits on myself, because I enjoyed the game. I'm still experiencing it, I just do it a bit different then some people might. A good example of this might be Aerofighters. I've played through it before, and I've seen some of the endings (got more to see), but I still come back to the game. Same thing with King of Fighters, and others. Why? Because the play mechanics are fun and I enjoy it. I sometimes just goof off, other times I impose limits (such as 4 continues only, or only use X character without strikers). I guess the reason I commented is the sheer idea that I'm playing a game "wrong" just because I'm playing it a slight bit differently than someone else may, or differently than someone else considers "the right way." Does that make sense? Yeah, I realize now every time I use the word "you" it should be replaced with "I." So it's true for me at least Also maybe I wasn't clear since I was mostly just talking aloud to myself. You say after you credit-cruised your way through Aerofighters you started to impose limits on yourself because you enjoy the game. That's precisely what I was trying to say. Reducing credit usage comes from liking the game, not some higher responsibility or "right" way. Hopefully I'm reading this right, but your own style of enjoyment led to setting limitations in order to enjoy and experience it more; just the way it works out with those games.
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Ketsui
Jun 17, 2010 23:13:01 GMT -5
Post by ryochan on Jun 17, 2010 23:13:01 GMT -5
Also maybe I wasn't clear since I was mostly just talking aloud to myself. You say after you credit-cruised your way through Aerofighters you started to impose limits on yourself because you enjoy the game. That's precisely what I was trying to say. Reducing credit usage comes from liking the game, not some higher responsibility or "right" way. Hopefully I'm reading this right, but your own style of enjoyment led to setting limitations in order to enjoy and experience it more; just the way it works out with those games. Yeah. Basically I want to see everything in the game, because I love seeing all the silly, or creative, touches someone puts in. And sometimes I'll cheat. But then I'll go back and work at it because I like the game, or the way it plays, and just want to see what I can do with a limit.
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Ketsui
Jun 19, 2010 15:25:14 GMT -5
Post by KeeperBvK on Jun 19, 2010 15:25:14 GMT -5
Shouldn't the article be listed under game series instead of individual games when the DS's Death Label has got its own section within the article? And I think it might be nice if the article mentions that Death Label's rendition of level 5 is not exactly like the arcade' original one, as the location of enemies are always quite a bit randomized.
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Ketsui
Nov 5, 2015 21:00:57 GMT -5
Post by drpepperfan on Nov 5, 2015 21:00:57 GMT -5
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