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Post by strizzuth on Nov 20, 2014 12:02:05 GMT -5
The fact that there's a lady pleasure meter that fills up while she's saying "NO!"... I'm gonna go drink bleach now.
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Post by wyrdwad on Nov 20, 2014 12:17:30 GMT -5
I'd hate to imagine where games like this end up getting played. Probably in the same places all those hentai Mahjonng games nobody likes end up, I guess. I mean, even when you get past the game's horrible, horrible subject matter, where were you supposed to play a game that was supposedly made to arouse people? I feel like I don't want to know, yet I somehow do. Having lived in Japan, I can tell you the answer is... nowhere special. They're treated like any other arcade games, and typically are present in almost any arcade you enter. Maybe they're somewhere in the back, or on another floor, but if the arcade is small enough, they could just be right out in the open too -- and you'll often just see totally normal-looking dudes playing them, then going about their business as if they'd just stopped off for a quick game of Pac-Man. It's kind of disturbing at first, but once you get used to the way things work in Japan, you stop even noticing it -- porn is pretty commonplace over there. You'll often see dudes openly reading porn on the subway, or at 7-11 (where porn is sold alongside the regular magazines). Sometimes they'll be trying to hide what they're doing, but the older they are, the more they just plain don't give a damn -- they'll be sipping their coffee and reading/playing their porn as if it were the business section of the newspaper or something. ![;)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/wink.png) -Tom
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2014 12:42:01 GMT -5
I know it may be common place in Japan Tom but look at the way they treat women in Japan - now exactly paragons of treating women equally.
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Post by lanceboyle94 on Nov 20, 2014 12:46:41 GMT -5
Who knew that all along the little something that Pac-Man was missing was rape. Not much to say here, the concept for this game is reprehensible, but its existence isn't particularly surprising. Gross, awful people will be gross and awful in one way or another, and when new technology becomes available, they'll be gross and awful with that too. 177's worse because the girl marries the rapist if you're successful. Now that's messed up. Real fuckin' messed up. The concept of that game was terrible already, but the fact that that's the ending is the real kicker. I don't tend to go like this, but fucking hell, man. I don't think there's ever been anyone in their lives that ever thought "oh god, he raped me, but he did it well... I gotta marry him!". It's fucking backwards thinking/some really weird case of Stockholm Syndrome. FAKE EDIT: You gotta be fucking kidding me. What a goddamn coincidence.
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Post by wyrdwad on Nov 20, 2014 13:20:28 GMT -5
I know it may be common place in Japan Tom but look at the way they treat women in Japan - now exactly paragons of treating women equally. That's sort of true in certain ways, but I also think stories of Japan's horrible treatment of women are often grossly exaggerated. If I were a woman, I think I'd feel safer walking down the streets of Tokyo than I would walking down the streets of LA (and this is backed up by anecdotal evidence from all the female expats I know who live or lived in Japan, as well as all my female Japanese friends). There's definitely a lot more casual sexism in Japan than there is here, but it manifests itself in mostly irksome-but-harmless "gender role" sorts of ways -- women in the office are expected to make coffee and pour it for everyone, for example -- and a lot of that is balanced out by the chivalry benefits (people are much more likely to get the door for you and go out of their way to help you if you're female, which may annoy some people due to the sexist undertones, but it's hard to fault someone for treating you well). Japan's group mentality means you're far less likely to be accosted on the street or harassed by random weirdos unless they're in large groups (because no individual is going to want to do anything to make himself stand out negatively), and large groups of dangerous individuals are unlikely to be roaming the streets on account of the fact that even larger groups of people (i.e. the general populace) might judge them harshly for their actions. Also, the people you see playing porn games or reading porn magazines or comics in public? The last people you'll ever see harassing anyone. They're too engaged in their porn to even notice real women. ![;)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/wink.png) -Tom
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2014 13:28:41 GMT -5
I've known a few girls who went to Japan who were verbally harassed each day they were there - the girl who spoke Japanese said that it was worse for her as she could hear the things they didn't think she could understand they were saying ![:P](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/tongue.png) I'm sure like you say it's not the majority of people - we have sleazy arseholes the whole world over that seem to think it is okay to say these things to women. I just have come to believe that people who have been raised with a lack of respect towards women - something certain pornographic material, anime, films and games tends to promote for masculine power fantasies - then you probably do have a higher chance of treating women with a lack of respect. The same goes for transgender people or gay people - some people say astonishingly offensive things to these people without even realising it is bad cause they've never been shown that treating these people as something less than human is okay - via family, friends or media. Still doesn't make it okay.
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Post by wyrdwad on Nov 20, 2014 14:14:34 GMT -5
You forget about moe, though. Moe is the norm for anime, films and games in Japan these days, and while people have certainly been corrupting the basic tenets of moe into something... unsavory... I think there's still more true moe out there than there is "male power fantasy" stuff. And one of the key things that makes something moe is a sense of elevating women on a pedestal above men, encouraging men to protect and treasure the women in their lives and never to mistreat them. It's definitely sexist -- women are regarded almost like beautiful, dainty flowers in need of protection -- but at least it has its basis in classic chivalry, and seems representative of the majority of what I've seen during my time in Japan: women are still not treated equally, but they're looked up to, and guys who treat women like crap are pretty much made into social pariahs.
So I'm not sure people have been raised with a "lack of respect" toward women, per se -- it's more like, people have been raised with a perception of what women are that's pretty damned skewed, but which largely encourages men to treat them well and shun those who don't (at least publicly).
Maybe I just got lucky, or maybe things were better where I was in Japan (the Tohoku area) -- and likely, things have changed since I left Japan -- but I just don't see it being anywhere near as bad for women as people in the west make it out to be.
-Tom
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Post by strizzuth on Nov 20, 2014 14:35:47 GMT -5
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groping#Japan"Crowded trains are a favourite location for groping and a 2001 survey conducted in two Tokyo high schools revealed that more than 70% of students had been groped while traveling on them."
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Post by wyrdwad on Nov 20, 2014 15:05:12 GMT -5
The groping thing occurs partially because it can be done anonymously. Trains in Japan are so overcrowded during rush hour that if a hand touches you, you'll usually have NO IDEA whose it was. And all social convention -- all concern regarding public shame -- goes out the window when you can get away with something through anonymity.
And as soon as a venue is learned of where criminal activity becomes possible with little to no consequence, all the scumbags will crawl out of the woodwork and settle in there for the long haul.
None of my friends have been groped on trains, but that's largely because they either don't ride them at rush hour, or ride in the women-only cars if they do (where no man can possibly be anonymous).
...Either way, I'm not saying there's NO problem in Japan, obviously. But I do think the problem is less there than it is here. The only reason we don't have mass train gropings in the U.S. is because (A) nobody rides trains anymore, and (B) people aren't packed into them like sardines. If neither of those things were true, I can almost guarantee you the problem would be even worse here.
-Tom
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2014 15:16:28 GMT -5
I can tell you from personal experience groping is an incredibly uncommon in London where the tubes are often overcrowded at rush hour. That's a western country where women - although still nowhere near being treated truly equal are still treated with much more respect - unwarranted groping of strangers in a night club or on a tube/train is liable to land you up in court.
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Post by Neo Rasa on Nov 20, 2014 15:24:59 GMT -5
Extremely out of touch post wyrdwad. The legal definition and reporting differs in the US due to the US legal system's flexibility regarding consent, but women being groped on trains is a problem in the US even if it is especially bad in Japan due to more consistently oblivious female objectification. I don't even understand how the sentence "(A) nobody rides trains anymore, and (B) people aren't packed into them like sardines." can even exist in reference to the US. US commuter trains alone do something like 480 million rides a year. That's higher than our population.
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Post by JDarkside on Nov 20, 2014 15:40:05 GMT -5
Japan has some serious issues with sexuality. Porn censorship lead to a lot of crazy experimentation there, and it sort of fed into the otaku mindset, which has some influence on the country proper. For example, there's a growing trend with people retreating into "2D love," where they become afraid of real relationships and retreat into fantasy supplied by games. This has actually affected the birth rate so much that Japan has a serious issue to deal with as the population starts having less and less young population in the next few decades.
Porn can also be destructive in excess. I browse a few hentai communities and the common trend that keeps popping up is that some members start letting fantasy inform their personality and views, even if they don't realize it. There is some terrifying sexist shit there.
It's actually fascinating. I'd love to see a sociology study of these places and anonymous populated sites like 4chan to see the effects of their hostile and joking culture (going on a tangent, I know, but it really is fascinating stuff).
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Post by wyrdwad on Nov 20, 2014 15:45:08 GMT -5
Neo Rasa: It was a bit of an exaggeration, though that's still a really shocking figure to me -- I just meant that compared to Japan, there isn't really a "train culture" in the U.S. When you want to reach a far-off destination in the U.S., you hop in a car or ride an airplane. When you want to go downtown, you hop in a car, hail a taxi or -- on rare occasions, if you feel like taking your life into your hands -- grab a bus.
In Japan, everything is trains. If you can't walk there, you take a train. Sometimes you'll take a bus, if there are no trains going where you're going... but most of the time, there will be trains going where you're going, so you'll take a train.
Most people in Japan don't even own cars because public transportation is just so... omnipresent. And that's definitely not the case anywhere I know of in the U.S. If you live and work here, chances are you own a car and use it regularly.
I guess the real sign of the differences between the two countries, for me, is that I've heard people in the U.S. say things like, "Oh, we're taking the train? Wow, I've never been on a train!"... like, a lot. Most people I know here have never ridden on a train before in their lives.
In Japan, that would be absolutely unheard of. If you live in Japan, you grew up riding on trains. It's almost literally unavoidable.
-Tom
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Post by Neo Rasa on Nov 20, 2014 15:49:27 GMT -5
This is it. The whitest post on the internet.
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Post by Weasel on Nov 20, 2014 15:59:27 GMT -5
What even happened to this thread?
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