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Post by wyrdwad on Feb 21, 2016 3:57:06 GMT -5
The correct answer to the thread is The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past. You're all going to call me a heathen for this, but... I didn't like A Link to the Past. Back when that game came out, Electronics Boutique had a 10-day trade-in policy for all games, and after about a week, I decided ALttP just wasn't the game for me, and traded it in for Lemmings instead. The sales rep who processed the exchange couldn't believe I was doing that. But in the end, I wound up liking Lemmings considerably more. The biggest issue for me with Link to the Past, as I recall, was with the dungeon designs. The dungeons... were just kind of boring. It felt like a real slog getting through the game after a while, with nothing new happening and nothing new to find -- just one monotonous dungeon after another. It wore me down, and eventually made me decide I'd be better off playing something else. Not sure if I'd still feel that way today or not, but it has tainted my memory of the game a bit, and makes me less inclined to consider it a truly "well-rounded" experience. I feel like Ocarina of Time did a much better job with the same basic concepts, and wound up making Link to the Past more or less obsolete. -Tom |
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Post by GamerL on Feb 21, 2016 6:45:54 GMT -5
I think a well rounded game is one that not only offers you something solid and polished but also gives you variation of play through out the experience to keep things feeling fresh until the end. ActRaiser jumps to mind. The sim aspect is fun and charming with a good feeling of discovery and the platforming stages feel really good. The swap between them comes at a swift enough pace that neither linger on for longer than you'd want them too. Plus, seriously... the soundtrack and sound effects are some of the most memorable in any game ever. Hey now chum, I made the thread, I get to define what "well rounded" means in this discussion.  I simply mean well rounded as in a game that doesn't have any major weak links, there's plenty of games out there that people say "it's a great game BUT" and this thread is about the games that managed to succeed in every major category. |
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Post by ommadawnyawn2 on Feb 21, 2016 11:34:15 GMT -5
The correct answer to the thread is The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past. The biggest issue for me with Link to the Past, as I recall, was with the dungeon designs. The dungeons... were just kind of boring. It felt like a real slog getting through the game after a while, with nothing new happening and nothing new to find -- just one monotonous dungeon after another. It wore me down, and eventually made me decide I'd be better off playing something else. Not sure if I'd still feel that way today or not, but it has tainted my memory of the game a bit, and makes me less inclined to consider it a truly "well-rounded" experience. I feel like Ocarina of Time did a much better job with the same basic concepts, and wound up making Link to the Past more or less obsolete. -Tom Still they were a great improvement over the previous games' dungeons and among the best of its time. But I can agree a bit with the monotony argument, I mean they did use the large eyeball boss idea three times in the game and Link's Awakening used its special items in more interesting ways overall, which helped each dungeon feel unique. I think its weakest link is the linearity though; maybe would've been a bit much to expect at the time but keeping the open endedness while making the difficulty curve dynamic (so that it changed depending on your path through the game) would've made the game much more replayable. There's actually a hack in the making that's going to open up the dungeon order more though. As for the story and setting, I remember it feeling like more than it actually was at the time, partially because of the comic published in Nintendo Power which gave the characters a bit more personality and emotional depth, partially because I was much younger, and because of the long strategy guide for the game. |
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Post by wyrdwad on Feb 21, 2016 16:05:09 GMT -5
Still they were a great improvement over the previous games' dungeons and among the best of its time. What's weird is, I don't recall having this issue with the previous games. The dungeons in Zelda 1 never felt monotonous to me at all, and Zelda 2 is my favorite game in the series -- though that actually might account for my dislike of Link to the Past a bit, as I really wanted Nintendo to iterate upon the Zelda 2 formula rather than jumping back to the first game. Was probably just a case of my expectations being a little too lofty, and I'm almost certain I'd be more into the game now. I just found it really monotonous and uninteresting as a kid, for one reason or another. -Tom |
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Post by ommadawnyawn2 on Feb 21, 2016 17:15:43 GMT -5
I suppose if you prefer the more action oriented approach and the controls of those games then that makes sense, sure. Combat is generally pretty breezy or avoidable in Zelda 3, besides the bosses.
Zelda 2 did have a great and unique, if a bit unpolished approach to combat in a sidescroller so I agree that a game building on that would be cool, whether it's a Zelda game or not.
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Post by wyrdwad on Feb 21, 2016 17:53:34 GMT -5
I suppose if you prefer the more action oriented approach and the controls of those games then that makes sense, sure. Combat is generally pretty breezy or avoidable in Zelda 3, besides the bosses. Zelda 2 did have a great and unique, if a bit unpolished approach to combat in a sidescroller so I agree that a game building on that would be cool, whether it's a Zelda game or not. Yeah, to be clear, I'm not saying Zelda 2 is a well-rounded game in any way -- it's actually kind of a mess, it's just a mess I really enjoy.  Zeldas 1 and 3 are much more well-rounded games overall, though Ocarina of Time really is probably the most well-rounded game in the series. That's one of those few perfect 40s from Famitsu that I think actually deserved the grade, as there's little Ocarina of Time does wrong (for the era especially!). Also, another potentially controversial nomination from me: I apologize for all the MSX recommendations here, but I've been playing a lot of MSX games lately, and one title that really stands out to me is Castlevania/Vampire Killer. The classic-vania games might not qualify as well-rounded due to the fact that there's not much story in them, but if story isn't necessarily a requirement for a well-rounded game (and I don't think it should be, since not every game demands the presence of a deep storyline), I think Vampire Killer is probably the most well-rounded game in the entire Castlevania series. I know it's generally considered the "lesser" version of Castlevania 1, but I always found CV1 on the NES to be a rather poorly balanced experience -- just far too difficult for its control scheme. It gave the game a certain "frustration factor" that I feel no truly well-balanced game should have. Vampire Killer, despite only giving you three total lives and no continues with no possibility of gaining 1-ups, is a far more well-balanced experience IMHO. The game relies less on twitch reflexes and more on the use of items to overcome difficult situations, with the meat of the game consisting of exploring Dracula's castle in search of those items. Each time you play, you'll get a little farther than you did the time before, learning the locations and costs of the most important items, as well as learning which items are most useful in the coming areas and during the coming boss fight. The game also throws a lot of traps at you, many of which are based on perspective -- everything from a fake lower bridge at the beginning of stage 6, to a section where not going the long way around to break some blocks in advance could get you stuck. But all of these traps can be overcome by carefully examining your surroundings -- by looking before you leap, essentially, and using the bevy of map items you're given along the way. The end result is a Castlevania game that relies more on strategy and resource management than on twitch reflexes, which makes it more accessible to more people despite its high level of difficulty. It's a cool experience that showcases expert level design and rewards the player for persistence and planning. And to me, that's the very definition of "well-balanced." -Tom |
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anklerocker
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Getting slapped around by Ninja Gaiden...
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Post by anklerocker on Feb 22, 2016 4:36:49 GMT -5
I think a well rounded game is one that not only offers you something solid and polished but also gives you variation of play through out the experience to keep things feeling fresh until the end. ActRaiser jumps to mind. The sim aspect is fun and charming with a good feeling of discovery and the platforming stages feel really good. The swap between them comes at a swift enough pace that neither linger on for longer than you'd want them too. Plus, seriously... the soundtrack and sound effects are some of the most memorable in any game ever. Hey now chum, I made the thread, I get to define what "well rounded" means in this discussion. I simply mean well rounded as in a game that doesn't have any major weak links, there's plenty of games out there that people say "it's a great game BUT" and this thread is about the games that managed to succeed in every major category. Oh... I meant zero disrespect. I suppose you could chop that first sentence off of my post completely and I still stand by the opinion I put forth. ActRaiser is pretty darn perfect. You just got me thinking about my own definitions of well rounded is all.  |
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Post by wyrdwad on Feb 25, 2016 5:21:57 GMT -5
Hey now chum, I made the thread, I get to define what "well rounded" means in this discussion. I simply mean well rounded as in a game that doesn't have any major weak links, there's plenty of games out there that people say "it's a great game BUT" and this thread is about the games that managed to succeed in every major category. Oh... I meant zero disrespect. I suppose you could chop that first sentence off of my post completely and I still stand by the opinion I put forth. ActRaiser is pretty darn perfect. You just got me thinking about my own definitions of well rounded is all. While I do like the look and sound of ActRaiser, and the sim elements are really awesome, I find the platforming to be kind of... lacking. It's just very basic and uninteresting, held up almost solely by the nice visuals and music. Gameplay-wise, the platforming sections are probably my least favorite parts of ActRaiser, and really don't do anything to stand out, nor even really excel at what they do -- they're just very middle-of-the-road. No real puzzles to solve, no clever stage designs (beyond the very first level, anyway)... just jump and swing a sword until you find the boss at the end, then beat it and move on. Maybe use spells sometimes, but... usually, no, there's no real need to bother. A lesser-known SNES title from Capcom called "SkyBlazer" is kind of like what I feel ActRaiser's side-scrolling sections SHOULD have been -- it had the tight designs and unique gimmicks down pat, while retaining a lot of the same style that ActRaiser had. It's because of the lackluster platforming areas, though, that I don't think I could ever really consider ActRaiser to be a "well-rounded" game. It was ambitious, and it half-realized those ambitions -- to the point that I still enjoyed the game greatly -- but even as a kid, I remember being at least a little let down by it. It was one of my most anticipated titles for the SNES thanks to Nintendo Power pushing it so hard, and when I finally got my hands on it... it was just good. Not great. -Tom |
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Post by JDarkside on Feb 25, 2016 6:58:47 GMT -5
Actraiser's platforming is basically that scene from the first Spiderdub where Spiderman goes "A natural disaster is occurring! I must act!" and then jumps off a tall building screaming "SUICIDE!!!"
Because jumping in that game is basically suicide a lot of the time, unless you're super careful. Also, boss battles are tedious and boring, or just hair pulling. I like the game, but Soul Blazer is a much stronger game on the whole (even if it has similar boss issues).
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Post by wyldesyde on Feb 28, 2016 17:22:51 GMT -5
It's heresy to speak ill of A Link to the Past. People get burned at the stake for that kind of crazy talk. |
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Post by Akomander on Mar 5, 2016 9:58:31 GMT -5
From the top of my head, I'd say these:
Contra for the Nes - It doesn't age! Superb graphics, excellent soundtrack, challenging, 2 players simultaneously. I go back and play from start to finish once a year at least.
Streets of Rage II for the MegaDrive/Genesis - I was gonna say Final Fight at first, but somebody already mentioned it and then it came to my mind. Final Fight is an excellent game, but Streets of Rage II has so much more. More characters, more special moves, an excellent soundtrack... and I could go on for days.
Street Fighter II - Pick any of the different flavours, be it World Warrior, Dash, Turbo... etc. There's a reason why they still have it at tournaments.
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Post by scroogemcclunk on Mar 6, 2016 3:07:08 GMT -5
We can't forget the original DOOM. That game is just absolutely legendary. Even though episode 1 is clearly better than the other two, it's still a 10/10 game that's been a blast to play for almost 23 years.
I'd also throw Samurai Shodown II and Street Fighter 2 in there. They're just so goddamned good.
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Post by kaoru on Mar 6, 2016 6:37:13 GMT -5
To me it is also Chrono Trigger. It's not even my favorite RPG of all time or anything, "just" a very good one, but damn if that thing didn't have polish. I played it pretty late and really came to the conclusion that it is more well made and with less flaws than most RPGs that I still liked more on a personal level.
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Post by alphex on Mar 6, 2016 14:32:10 GMT -5
Street Fighter II - Pick any of the different flavours, be it World Warrior, Dash, Turbo... etc. There's a reason why they still have it at tournaments. The one incarnation from SF2 that's still played a tournaments is ST, and that being from 1994, it's debatable if the graphics were still as flawless for that time as they were for '91. |
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Post by surnshurn on Mar 6, 2016 14:54:02 GMT -5
The first party development for the SNES was golden. All of that NES money put into project development, and custom microchips to boot. Super Mario World, Link To the Past, Super Metroid, Star Fox...
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Zeldas 1 and 3 are much more well-rounded games overall, though Ocarina of Time really is probably the most well-rounded game in the series. That's one of those few perfect 40s from Famitsu that I think actually deserved the grade, as there's little Ocarina of Time does wrong (for the era especially!).
