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Post by 90sgamer92 on Mar 6, 2016 15:41:24 GMT -5
I think that due to the nature of this medium, in a truly great&well rounded game it's not enough that "the story is good", it should tie into the gameplay mechanics somehow. Off the top of my head, the two classic games that meet that extra requirement would be X-COM: UFO Defense and Deus Ex&System Shock 2 (the story connection is less tenuous with augementations than in Deus Ex, but it serves as a symbolic plot point between the two extremes that SHODAN and The Many represent). The story/gameplay connection isn't as obvious in Portal, but that's a total masterpiece of game design. Great level design that's built around an innovative gameplay mechanic which is simple to learn but hard to master. The writing is good and the game managed to add a story to a puzzle game (which is complemented by a great athmosphere that the ambient soundtrack and minimalistic art design create). And most importantly, it's a well paced game that doesn't overstay its welcome. Oh yeah, I completely forgot about Undertale. I don't know if I can compare it to The Last of Us, because both are so different from each other, yet I think both games are absolute masterpieces, with great story, art design, music, gameplay, etc. I know its pointless to debate about some one elses opinions, but how is the art design great in Undertale? Ignoring the technical aspects and just judging the design, I just don't see anything special in it. Sure the character designs are unique/quirky, but the overal look of the game doesn't in my opinion create a look that's simultaneously cohesive and striking/cool/impressive/"artistic" (or even that creative). |
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Post by X-pert74 on Mar 6, 2016 17:31:24 GMT -5
I think that due to the nature of this medium, in a truly great&well rounded game it's not enough that "the story is good", it should tie into the gameplay mechanics somehow. Off the top of my head, the two classic games that meet that extra requirement would be X-COM: UFO Defense and Deus Ex&System Shock 2 (the story connection is less tenuous with augementations than in Deus Ex, but it serves as a symbolic plot point between the two extremes that SHODAN and The Many represent). The story/gameplay connection isn't as obvious in Portal, but that's a total masterpiece of game design. Great level design that's built around an innovative gameplay mechanic which is simple to learn but hard to master. The writing is good and the game managed to add a story to a puzzle game (which is complemented by a great athmosphere that the ambient soundtrack and minimalistic art design create). And most importantly, it's a well paced game that doesn't overstay its welcome. Oh yeah, I completely forgot about Undertale. I don't know if I can compare it to The Last of Us, because both are so different from each other, yet I think both games are absolute masterpieces, with great story, art design, music, gameplay, etc. I know its pointless to debate about some one elses opinions, but how is the art design great in Undertale? Ignoring the technical aspects and just judging the design, I just don't see anything special in it. Sure the character designs are unique/quirky, but the overal look of the game doesn't in my opinion create a look that's simultaneously cohesive and striking/cool/impressive/"artistic" (or even that creative). X-COM: UFO Defense is a good example of story tying into the gameplay. I ultimately didn't go with it though because I feel like too much grinding is necessary in the late game, in order to get enough soldiers who both are psi-resistant, and have their psychic abilities trained up enough to be able to use their abilities reliably enough. It's especially annoying that you have to spend a whole month training soldiers in the first place before you even find out how psi-resistant they are, ugh. I'm glad that one of the options OpenXCOM introduces lets you have their psi resistance stat viewable immediately after you build the psi lab. As for Undertale... a lot of its art design is very minimalistic, in a way that appealed to me. There are certain games where I'll feel truly engaged in the world, and like I'm actually exploring some interesting new place, and find myself wondering about everything about it, including what curious things in the background might have some relevance, or might be cool to check out in some way. I mostly had that from games I played when I was younger, but occasionally I'll get that feeling from a newer game too, that I'm playing something truly special, such as Deadly Premonition. While Deadly Premonition is also not technically impressive, I loved how its art design (amongst other things) truly helped me feel like I was in a unique universe that I really wanted to see more of, and Undertale felt kinda similar to me in a way. It exuded a charm that I found enticing. |
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Post by 90sgamer92 on Mar 7, 2016 0:47:16 GMT -5
Gotcha.
Speaking of art design, I don't know if it makes me a hypocrite, but I think that I enjoyed Bloodborne more than Dark Souls simply because the graphics are so jaw dropingly gorgeous and filled with beautifully detailed&designed areas. The combat is more fast paced and since I was familiar with the concept of Souls games at that point, it was less frustrating than learning to play Dark Souls for the first time, which might've also influenced my opinion. But I clearly remember thinking to myself that compared to Dark Souls, BB felt streamlined and lacking in gameplay options.
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Post by stealthRUSH on Aug 24, 2016 23:20:33 GMT -5
Lords of Thunder (Winds of Thunder) for PCE-CD/Duo feels really compact and complete. Opening cinematic displaying the settings, the fact every item in the shop is useful, obtaining currency is fair, and not many secrets or obvious bugs. Armor based on elements, each stage is identifiable which end with a unique boss, the final stage is full of surprises that eventually closes with a nice cinematic scene. I felt it was a long enough challenge with a normal difficulty for a shooter.
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Post by JoeQ on Aug 25, 2016 2:54:58 GMT -5
I can actually think of quite a few classics, especially from Nintendo, Sega and LucasArts, that I'd consider perfect (for what they are). For newer games Portal and Burnout 3 immediately pop to my mind.
My personal pick is Star Control 2: The Ur-Quan Masters. The story, the imaginative races, the combat, the exploration, the graphics, the music, everything about it just comes together so beautifully.
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Post by edmonddantes on Aug 25, 2016 3:02:42 GMT -5
Well rounded? Probably Ecstatica. or Ballz.  |
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Post by elektrolurch on Aug 25, 2016 3:51:56 GMT -5
Well rounded? Probably Ecstatica. or Ballz. Lol, I see what you did there......Funnily enough, both very unballanced games;) |
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Post by nerdybat on Aug 25, 2016 5:20:21 GMT -5
Undertale, as the game that connects everything it has to offer so perfectly into short, yet unforgettable experience, while avoiding shortcomings of its predecessors like Mother or Lisa.
Nethack, as something that's near unbreakable in its complexity, predicting practically everything the player can do, and reacting to player's input accordingly. Basically, if you can do something even overly specific (engraving Lord of the Rings references on the floor), stupid (throwing cockatrice eggs at enemies) or puny (throwing pit viper into the pit), your actions will lead to some unique outcome more likely than not.
Half Life 2, as an undisputed masterpiece of video game design that gets everything right, from levels, to sounds, to physics, to storyline, to overall flow of the game, etc.
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Post by metalmat on Aug 25, 2016 14:29:39 GMT -5
I would have to say Half-lIfe. The graphics and sound were good at the time. The story is great and the way its told is awesome and quite unique as there are no cut scenes. The gameplay is solid, each gun has a distinctive feel. The A.I., especially the soldiers, was nothing short of amazing. All in all it was a huge step up in the FPS genre at the time and is a masterpiece.
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Post by Colonel Kurtz on Aug 25, 2016 23:30:03 GMT -5
I will be a Sega man 'til the end. Sonic 1 and Fantasy Zone 2 (the Master System version) are my picks. Yes, I prefer Sonic 1 to its sequel, even if absolutely everybody always say Sonic 2 is superior... The levels' settings are far superior. It's not for nothing that when you see a Sonic promo pic, he's always standing in front of the first level's loop-de-loops. Also, the music is better. And well, it's Sonic 1... it's pure unaltered fun.
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Post by dr_st on Aug 29, 2016 11:05:17 GMT -5
Have any of you played Rayman Legends? I read you could unlocked all of Rayman Origins' levels in it, does it basically just have Rayman Origins in it or are the levels in the game's new engine? I want to play Legends, but I need a proper console.  Or a PC. Origins/Legends play really well on the PC, whether you prefer gamepads (they support all flavors) or keyboard. Legends does have many of Origins levels, but not all of them. The levels have been redone in the Legends engine, with slight modifications to match the items of Legends (Electoon cages replaced with Teensies, no Lum Kings, etc). One noticeable level that was cut is "The Land of the Livid Dead", but instead you can have a direct boss battle with "Big Mama" without having to play through that insanely difficult level. Back on topic: In all-around great games that excel in all departments (gameplay, graphics, audio, story) - some of the highly ranked on my list are Prince of Persia 2, and The Sands of Time trilogy (although 'The Two Thrones', in my opinion, was somewhat weaker than its two predecessors). |
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Post by edmonddantes on Aug 29, 2016 12:06:25 GMT -5
Still they were a great improvement over the previous games' dungeons and among the best of its time. What's weird is, I don't recall having this issue with the previous games. The dungeons in Zelda 1 never felt monotonous to me at all, and Zelda 2 is my favorite game in the series -- though that actually might account for my dislike of Link to the Past a bit, as I really wanted Nintendo to iterate upon the Zelda 2 formula rather than jumping back to the first game. Was probably just a case of my expectations being a little too lofty, and I'm almost certain I'd be more into the game now. I just found it really monotonous and uninteresting as a kid, for one reason or another. -Tom Your experiences seem to line up with mine. I replayed a lot of Zelda games recently and while I can enjoy LttP in a "nostalgia for the days of 16-Bit high fantasy" sense, the first two Zeldas on the NES are games I can genuinely get involved with and want to play more and more--which is how I got interested in romhacks and ZeldaClassic custom games. I wrote more in-depth here: edmsworld.wordpress.com/2013/04/07/legend-of-zelda-a-link-to-the-past/ |
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Post by The Great Klaid on Aug 29, 2016 12:34:43 GMT -5
Didn't even care to look, but I always say Ocarina of Time and Sonic 3 & Knuckles are just this.
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Post by jackcaeylin on Aug 29, 2016 14:26:05 GMT -5
I think there is no well rounded game of all time. Every game has heavy weak and heavy strong parts, which is not a bad thing. Games need some weak parts, thus the strong parts could shine. It could be music, certain artstyle, graphic details, motivation of chars, world explanation, world logic, backround, gameplay etc. Games can be very different and personal taste can be very different. They can be well rounded in a certain genre, but a game which is well rounded independently from the genre - no, I never saw that.
Yours sincerely
Jack Caeylin
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Post by dr_st on Aug 29, 2016 16:34:37 GMT -5
I think I mostly disagree with you. Some games have no 'heavy weak' parts. Some have no 'heavy strong' parts. Some have neither, they are just average.
Note the distinction between just weak/strong and 'heavy' weak/strong. "Weak/strong" is when a game has many levels, and some are more fun than others. That's always happens. 'Heavy' weak/strong is when something stands out so much (whether positively or negatively) that it feels almost like a different game. Or when one aspect of a game is awesome, and another is terrible. Like a great story and dull gameplay. Or good gameplay, but ugly graphics/annoying music/story that does not make sense.
Sure, there are plenty examples for the above. But there are also many games that are fairly uniform and pretty consistent. And if they are consistent in a good way, we can call them 'well rounded'.
Also - what do you mean by 'genre' in your context? 'Genre' as a type of game (action/adventure/puzzle/whatever) or as an aspect of a game (art, storyline, gameplay)?
If it's the former, then looking for a game well-rounded in all genres does not make sense, because a game typically belongs to one or two genres. If it's the latter, then (other than that it is perhaps not the best word to use), I'd say that you may be right that there is not a single game that is awesome in all the aspects you listed, but for some kinds of games they are can be irrelevant, or omitted entirely and the game can still be good.
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Oh yeah, I completely forgot about Undertale. I don't know if I can compare it to The Last of Us, because both are so different from each other, yet I think both games are absolute masterpieces, with great story, art design, music, gameplay, etc.I know its pointless to debate about some one elses opinions, but how is the art design great in Undertale? Ignoring the technical aspects and just judging the design, I just don't see anything special in it. Sure the character designs are unique/quirky, but the overal look of the game doesn't in my opinion create a look that's simultaneously cohesive and striking/cool/impressive/"artistic" (or even that creative). 
