Netflix Castlevania animated series

[toei]

I agree with some of those points. It's definitely a flawed show, and like you, I thought the longer conversations lack conciseness and those cheesy one-liners were out of place. Clearly, this was written by some average comic-book writer, and that's not a good thing. Featuring the church so prominently is certainly not in the least original, but can you deny that the real-world medieval church did every evil portrayed in the cartoon and more? In the real world, the Inquisition might as well have been the work of demons. You know what I hoped to see? I wanted that evil bishop to actually have some power of his own. I wanted his faith, however misguided, to amount to something, just so that it wouldn't turn out to be the same basic lesson. And why should Richter not want to fight back against monks who attacked him first, or who attacked an innocent man? I'd also question your characterization of the show doing everything it can to shock the audience. A single episode of South Park goes about a million times farther, and even that is a cartoon I watched as a child. I'm not a fan of heavy gore, but nothing in the show qualifies as such. It's clearly more action/fantasy than horror (and to be fair, none of the games were ever scary). I remember none of the music and I watched it maybe two weeks ago, so you're probably right that it's all forgettable trash. I have no problem with the first season of the show functioning as a prologue. Initially, it was planned as a movie, and my understanding from reading about it is that the final result is close to the movie it was meant to be (the combined running time of 80-some minutes certainly fits in with that). So clearly, the movie was meant to work as a prologue to the game. When the decision was made to turn it into a series, they had no idea if it would catch on, so they wisely stuck to the initial content, and greenlighted more when it turned out to be hit. That said, I expected very little, and it had its moments, so I can't be too critical.

[Apollo Chungus]

Aug 5, 2018 16:23:52 GMT -5 toei said:

Featuring the church so prominently is certainly not in the least original, but can you deny that they did every evil portrayed in the cartoon and more? In the real world, the Inquisition might as well have been the work of demons.

I'm not going to deny that shitty things have been done in the name of religions for hundreds, if not thousands, of years in the real world - that would be incredibly ignorant, not to mention silly. I've no beef with people who wish to make a point on criticizing organized religion or the people who run them; do what you gotta if you feel it can help people to understand each other better and give them something to think on.

My issue is that in this specific context, portraying religion as this unrelentingly evil force feels not only trite, but that it goes against the idea that the Belmonts are fighting Dracula and his forces for the sake of all people. I'm cool with the idea of showing flaws with religion in this series; hell, it could be used to show that people mean well and are always trying to learn from their mistakes in keeping with the theme I suggested in regards to humanity and faith. I just find the way it's done in the show to be too cynical in both outlook and execution that I can't help but roll my eyes at it.

Aug 5, 2018 16:23:52 GMT -5 toei said:

I'd also question your characterization of the show doing everything it can to shock the audience. A single episode of South Park goes about a million times farther, and even that is a cartoon I watched as a child. I'm not a fan of heavy gore, but nothing in the show qualifies as such. It's clearly more action/fantasy than horror (and to be fair, none of the games were ever scary).

In that comparison, South Park at least has a point in that it's trying to get people's attention by being as transgressive as possible (I've not seen the show in years, so I can't say as to whether it's still good at doing so, but I can at least get the theory behind it). But CastleVania doesn't seem to have a reason to show all this gore beyond just shocking the audience. Maybe I could get behind the idea that maybe it's trying to be cool in that Ninja Scroll kind of "Look at all this gross shit going on! It's so awesome!", if the show looked good or was directed well enough where the bloodshed was genuinely satisfying enough to relish in.

[toei]

Agreed that it's trite. Unfortunately, the initial theme of the game is just as trite, if not more. How many Japanese video games feature that same "fighting for humanity / to protect the ones I love" theme? 90, 95%? I don't think I'd have been able to bear seeing that again, especially not in expanded form. Moving away from the source material to a certain degree was the right idea (Castlevania has never been known for its storytelling), it's just too bad they had nothing much better to replace it with. I've read a quote from Ellis that he'd never played the games as a kid, and found them to be a Japanese take on "the Hammer films (he) loved", so he definitely never had major ambitions to begin with.

EDIT - I do think that Ninja Scroll / Berserk cool violent shit is what they're going for, and I would argue they succeed some times, even if they're not as good at it.

[X-pert74]

Isn't the basic premise of Dracula's Curse that the Belmont family was exiled prior to the events of the game? I think it makes total sense that Trevor would be as bitter and displeased with humanity as he is at the start of the show; that doesn't feel out of place at all to me. As for your complaints that the show is trying too hard to be violent or edgy... I'm not really sure what to say. Those moments you criticized (like whipping the zealot's eyeball out) I absolutely loved, and laughed out loud at. I'm used to really violent action movies and metal albums with gory artwork though, so I'm probably desensitized a little to that when it pops up in TV. It just didn't feel like they were trying too hard to me.

[edmonddantes]

Last time I enjoyed a Castlevania anime, it was called Vampire Hunter D.

To be honest the more I hear about Netflix's series, the less I care. One of my skype buddies watched it and his problem was with the setup. According to him, what happens is Dracula learns of Lisa's murder, then tells one old woman (who had been kind to Lisa) to leave town... then shows up the next day declaring he will attack within one year. Which, if my friend is right (and he usually is about these things) that sounds just face-palmingly dumb. The whole "telling the woman to leave" thing implies he will attack the very next day, not just send a message.

Then there's the fact that Warren Ellis is the writer. Let me be frank... the complaints that the show comes off as being a little too edgy tryhard with a hate-on for religion is not at all surprising to me, as that's what everything Warren Ellis has ever written is like. His work is the kind of junk that you would expect from a fifteen-year-old who has absolutely no nuanced understanding of history, human nature, or reality... or storytelling for that matter. He's one of those who does things simply because its been done before so that legitimizes it--in other words, "its a trope, that makes it okay," when good writers never ever think like that.

I might give it a try later, but I'm not getting my hopes up.

[toei]

Aug 12, 2018 13:22:51 GMT -5 edmonddantes said:

To be honest the more I hear about Netflix's series, the less I care. One of my skype buddies watched it and his problem was with the setup. According to him, what happens is Dracula learns of Lisa's murder, then tells one old woman (who had been kind to Lisa) to leave town... then shows up the next day declaring he will attack within one year. Which, if my friend is right (and he usually is about these things) that sounds just face-palmingly dumb. The whole "telling the woman to leave" thing implies he will attack the very next day, not just send a message.

Sure, but that's not exactly hard to explain. He spoke to the old woman immediately after learning of his wife's death. At the moment he probably felt like killing everyone in town right then and there. Instead he decided to destroy the entire country, and for that he needed a year to summon an army of demons.

[moran]

It is what happens, but it works just fine. It’s a simplistic, care free, action movie adaptation. People shouldn’t think too hard about it.

[Ace Whatever]

I might be mis-remembering but wasn't his threat to the town in general a bluff to scare them into thinking he could attack at any moment? Maybe he said that to the woman to keep up the charade. On the other hand I don't remember why he specifically needed a year to summon the demons.

[Haruka]

The reason Dracula gave a warning was for the people of Wallachia to "make peace with their God and remove any marks they made on the land". So basically, he gives them a chance to escape for some reason. However, in the second season trailer, Alucard states Dracula wants to kill every human on earth. Fair enough, but what was even the point of the warning then?

My problem with the set up is that there's no good reason Dracula would want to kill every human instead of just the people responsible for his wife's death. I know the game's themselves aren't very clear on that point either, but I expect more from a TV show.

[moran]

Going back to the original source, he basically hates humans because he can’t do what they can. That festers over centuries and he begins to see them as miserable piles of secrets. He softens up on that when he meets his wife and opens up his mind for her and her human ways. Then when she is murdered by humans he reverts back to his original stance on them and would rather rule by fear than co-exist.

[toei]

He's basically a hardcore anti-human bigot, which is made pretty clear in the opening episode.

[Deleted]

Whilst I think the 1st series was dreadful (covered beautifully Apollo Chungus!) I have to say the games weren't really a series you went to for it's deep and meaningful plot. You went to it to fight horror monsters with a whip, excellent gameplay and the fear of being knocked back into a bottomless pit haha.

The plot more or less has always been "Dracula's back again- he resurrects every 100 years! Except when he doesn't, which seems to more often be the case".
Really though, looking at the IGAvania timeline it seems as though Drac only stayed asleep for 100 years all of once? He must have been getting fed up of being resurrected by lame bad guys.

[edmonddantes]

Aug 14, 2018 8:46:04 GMT -5 @gmbison said:

Whilst I think the 1st series was dreadful (covered beautifully Apollo Chungus!) I have to say the games weren't really a series you went to for it's deep and meaningful plot.

... Have any of the criticisms so far been about the plot?

Just pointing this out because "the games weren't known for their plot" and "you're not supposed to think about it" have both popped up more than once and neither is a particularly solid argument, and I wanna nip it before it gets too out of hand... or out of whip.

Besides, what is a plot?  A miserable pile of secrets!

[Deleted]

I was thinking you can give the games a pass for the shitty plot- the series is just poorly executed in every way possible, plot included.

[Haruka]

I wouldn't describe Castlevania's plot as "shitty", more like "simple" (then again, I'm biased). If in the right hands, it could be done very well. For example, the original Star Wars has a really simplistic plot but the execution is terrific. On the other hand, if the wrong person is attached to the project, you end up with terrible shlock.