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Post by alphex on Oct 16, 2017 20:50:48 GMT -5
I really feel that "classic Mega Man should always be 8 bit" is an awful retcon that pretty much killed the series; sure we got 9 & 10 (one fantastic, the other pretty damn good), but it put a timebomb set to zero on the series' future, as it couldn't win over any new fans that way and cemented is as rooted in a time long gone by. Imagine an all-out modern 2D Mega Man with level design of that quality plus a couple of new twists.
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Post by ommadawnyawn2 on Oct 17, 2017 14:21:30 GMT -5
I wasn't saying that to be clear, just that some aspects worked better but it's not like they couldn't be replicated while having modern audiovisuals and whatever post 8-bit gameplay elements like big scaling sprites or rotating levels.
Then again 9-10 do things you couldn't do or at least not as well on the NES. I think keeping it 8-bit aesthetics-wise just let them focus on gameplay and getting the games done more easily, also milking the nostalgia and keeping the classic series distinct from X and MMZ. I don't know if that alone limited its appeal that much, I think it was more the trial & error heavy gameplay and, sad to say, lack of story that did it.
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Post by Bumpyroad on Oct 23, 2017 8:16:02 GMT -5
I know it's been brought up so many times to the point of being annoying, but Streets of Rage 3 will probably forever be doomed by SOR 2. And i'm not sure that was so fundamentally wrong with it, as i like it slightly better over the 2nd. OST was a bit lacking, but what else!?
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Post by jackcaeylin on Oct 23, 2017 8:26:32 GMT -5
I know it's been brought up so many times to the point of being annoying, but Streets of Rage 3 will probably forever be doomed by SOR 2. And i'm not sure that was so fundamentally wrong with it, as i like it slightly better over the 2nd. OST was a bit lacking, but what else!? As far as I know, the reason could be the american difficulty, because it makes some battles really tedious like Jet. His life bar is huge and you need lots of patience. It is not hard, but on the annoying side. Yours sincerely Jack Caeylin |
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Post by Bumpyroad on Oct 23, 2017 8:55:29 GMT -5
I know it's been brought up so many times to the point of being annoying, but Streets of Rage 3 will probably forever be doomed by SOR 2. And i'm not sure that was so fundamentally wrong with it, as i like it slightly better over the 2nd. OST was a bit lacking, but what else!? As far as I know, the reason could be the american difficulty, because it makes some battles really tedious like Jet. His life bar is huge and you need lots of patience. It is not hard, but on the annoying side. Yours sincerely Jack Caeylin Hmm.. could be, but i'm thinking about other beat-em ups, that had been released that year and would have been responsible for weaker sales and overall likeness.. |
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Post by alphex on Oct 23, 2017 10:03:11 GMT -5
SOR3 mostly suffers from the localization - the weird color scheme detracts from the atmsophere, the increased difficulty increases the annoyance more than anything, and the story kinda got in the way a bit. Since atmosphere is a huge part of the genre's excitement, the weaker music DID play a role, and while I love the new gameplay additions, overall, it just didn't feel quite as slick as SOR2. Also, it came out when the genre's popularity was quickly dwindling, and it looked no better than SOR2, so it didn't have that wow-factor.
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Post by Exhuminator on Oct 27, 2017 10:18:47 GMT -5
First thing that comes to mind for me is Hotel Dusk: Room 215 versus Last Window: The Secret of Cape West. Last Window is the (not obviously named) sequel to Hotel Dusk. Although Last Window was critically praised and not hard to get ahold of (even if only imported), it still remains in fair obscurity today and never crawled out from beneath Hotel Dusk's shadow. I've talked to plenty of folks who loved Hotel Dusk, and many of them hadn't even heard of Last Window. Of the ones that have, many of them just don't bother playing the sequel. It's a shame, because Last Window is a phenomenally good adventure game, just as Hotel Dusk was before it.
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Post by Bumpyroad on Nov 2, 2017 14:20:19 GMT -5
Has Devil May Cry 2 ever found its place under the Sun? Interestingly enough for me, my introduction to the series was exactly DMC 2. I went back and completed the 1st game after that, but at the time i couldn't really tell if the predecessor was a better game;Surely it had a darker tone, but i thought i liked the sequel just a bit more actually  . I guess it just didn't click with majority of people for some subjective reasons, even though the production values were pretty spot on and it's a bigger game overall, still.. |
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Post by Vokkan on Nov 2, 2017 15:21:07 GMT -5
I really feel that "classic Mega Man should always be 8 bit" is an awful retcon that pretty much killed the series; sure we got 9 & 10 (one fantastic, the other pretty damn good), but it put a timebomb set to zero on the series' future, as it couldn't win over any new fans that way and cemented is as rooted in a time long gone by. Imagine an all-out modern 2D Mega Man with level design of that quality plus a couple of new twists. MM8 was the death of the classic series. Specifically it was the larger sprites, detailed run animations, and rounded platform edges that was the death of pixel perfect platforming. Luckily Capcom made the game a complete walk in the park. (Luckily those changes doesn't hurt the X series) Mega Man 11 should just be low res without trying to adhere to the limits of the NES (like Shovel Knight). |
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Post by alphex on Nov 2, 2017 15:45:15 GMT -5
I really feel that "classic Mega Man should always be 8 bit" is an awful retcon that pretty much killed the series; sure we got 9 & 10 (one fantastic, the other pretty damn good), but it put a timebomb set to zero on the series' future, as it couldn't win over any new fans that way and cemented is as rooted in a time long gone by. Imagine an all-out modern 2D Mega Man with level design of that quality plus a couple of new twists. MM8 was the death of the classic series. Specifically it was the larger sprites, detailed run animations, and rounded platform edges that was the death of pixel perfect platforming. Luckily Capcom made the game a complete walk in the park. (Luckily those changes doesn't hurt the X series) Mega Man 11 should just be low res without trying to adhere to the limits of the NES (like Shovel Knight). Mega Man 8 had sprites about the same size as X1-X3. X4-X6 had larger ones, and Mega Man 7 of course as well. Since the level designs were created with the sprite size in mind, it didn't lead to any problems anyway. So, uhm, no? |
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Post by Vokkan on Nov 2, 2017 19:07:51 GMT -5
Mega Man 8 had sprites about the same size as X1-X3. X4-X6 had larger ones, and Mega Man 7 of course as well. Luckily those changes doesn't hurt the X series Since the level designs were created with the sprite size in mind, it didn't lead to any problems anyway. Capcom made the game a complete walk in the park. |
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Post by alphex on Nov 2, 2017 22:08:18 GMT -5
That's not what I said at all. You said the larger sprites hurt the platforming - if that was the case, the X series would have suffered from it as well. That one sentenced doesn't really work in that argument, if anything, you're contradicting yourself.
And levels designed with sprite sizes in mind are not "a walk in the park". The platforming in 7, 8, X4 and X5 is adjusted to the sprite size. Hell, even the platforming in the Super Famicom Rockman & Bass is, and that game is hardly a walk in the park.
But whatever, dude.
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Post by Vokkan on Nov 3, 2017 5:50:54 GMT -5
Well I still have no idea what you're trying to say then.
I can say Rockman & Bass is closer to X at least, i.e. about complex maneuvering instead of pixel perfect platforming, which is why it can be challenging and still work.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2017 7:28:22 GMT -5
Has Devil May Cry 2 ever found its place under the Sun? Interestingly enough for me, my introduction to the series was exactly DMC 2. I went back and completed the 1st game after that, but at the time i couldn't really tell if the predecessor was a better game;Surely it had a darker tone, but i thought i liked the sequel just a bit more actually . I guess it just didn't click with majority of people for some subjective reasons, even though the production values were pretty spot on and it's a bigger game overall, still.. 2 really is a poor game compared to the 1st & 3rd - samey environments & the weapons essentially being pallete swaps rather than providing additional movesets are big offenders. It is also significantly easier on the default difficulty although I imagine the Dante Must Die mode sorts that issue...but a single play through with both characters was as much as I could endure... |
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cm30
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Just working on articles and Mario fan games...
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Post by cm30 on Nov 3, 2017 10:29:24 GMT -5
This will be a weird example, but sometimes I think Paper Mario Color Splash is in this camp.
Objectively, it's better than Sticker Star in every way, and a decent halfway point between the old style games and the Sticker Star style ones in terms of characters and atmosphere. It fixes many gameplay issues, has some beautiful graphics and great music, etc.
However, it's then overshadowed because:
1. It's entirely lumped with Sticker Star, since it's still not fixed the overuse of Toads issue.
2. It came out at the end of the Wii U's lifespan, where basically no one was buying games for the thing. So it probably sold about half a million copies at most.
Controversial answer, but yeah, I think it counts.
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. I guess it just didn't click with majority of people for some subjective reasons, even though the production values were pretty spot on and it's a bigger game overall, still..
