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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2012 13:52:34 GMT -5
That's true. And it can result in game-fixing patches (like the alterations to the mineral scanning minigame to make it less horrible). Problem is when companies abuse and exploit it like Capcom usually does, or in a perfect example Konami with Otomedius.
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Post by Allie on Feb 23, 2012 14:10:23 GMT -5
Casey Hudson on Day 1 DLC and why it isn't as TEH EVILZ!!!! as everyone thinks it is: This is all on his Twitter. Though if given the choice of getting bits of DLC for $10 at a time or getting roughly the same amount of content about a year later for the price of a slightly less-than-the-price-of-a-full-game expansion pack, I'll choose the former. I've never really gotten the bitching and whining about content DLC when it's more or less just expansion packs with staggered release schedules. The real quality expansion packs like NWN2's Mask of the Betrayer (which was better than the original, mediocre game) and Half-Life: Opposing Force were more the exception to the rule. My problem with Day 1 DLC is that more often than not (though not always) it ends up being used to facilitate "Pre-Order Bonus" content, in a misguided attempt to stop used purchases. It also means that even some people who DO buy new, but don't pre-order, end up with an incomplete game. Even worse is when it's a "Retailer Exclusive Bonus" (like when it took THQ months upon months to finally make Bret Hart available in SvR the one year when he was a Best Buy exclusive), or NBGI making Dampierre a Best Buy exclusive in SC5. |
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Post by megatronbison on Feb 23, 2012 14:19:07 GMT -5
The preorder stuff offends me too- I don't preorder because hey- you know what? I can't guarantee I'll have money for exactly when the game comes out and I am a bargain hunter- why preorder from some place charging £45 brand new when on the day another retailer could have it for £30? I guess the bonus is supposed to be incentive to splash out more cash but hey- I don't buy DVDs or Blurays the moment they come out but do they go "oh well- no bonus features for you late adopter!"? - nope.
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Post by Warchief Onyx on Feb 23, 2012 14:22:15 GMT -5
The retailer exclusive-content really annoy me, personally. That along with content that's already on the disc but you have to pay for a key that's only a few KB are the applications of DLC I really can't stand.
Though as long as pre-order DLC is superfluous stuff and available later, I don't have TOO much of a problem with it. If I want it and can get it later, than yay. If not, I can ignore it. I get the idea that's more the idea of the stores than the publishers at times. Especially the Gamestops of the world that make very little profit on new game sales and rely on reserves as their primary means of actually not selling new games at a loss.
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Post by Allie on Feb 23, 2012 14:26:15 GMT -5
The retailer exclusive-content really annoy me, personally. That along with content that's already on the disc but you have to pay for a key that's only a few KB are the applications of DLC I really can't stand. Though as long as pre-order DLC is superfluous stuff and available later, I don't have TOO much of a problem with it. If I want it and can get it later, than yay. If not, I can ignore it. I get the idea that's more the idea of the stores than the publishers at times. Especially the Gamestops of the world that make very little profit on new game sales and rely on reserves as their primary means of actually not selling new games at a loss. Of course, those 100 KB keys aren't always on-disc content. Sometimes they're part of an update data-dump (like in WWE All-Stars with the pack that had Chris Jericho in it). Of course, that's still annoying in its own way, having to sit through DLC being installed onto your HD that you might never actually buy. |
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Post by Warchief Onyx on Feb 23, 2012 14:33:31 GMT -5
Yeah, SvR 2011 did the same thing. You downloaded the entire DLC pack's data even if you just wanted, say, the WCW Nitro arena. Then you paid for the ability to access the other content on the data dump you just downloaded instead of being able to just download individual pieces.
SvR 2011 was a really good game, but the way it handled everything to do with online was really bizarre and backwards. My copy of the game wouldn't even recognize new DLC or stuff downloaded through the Community Creations without restarting.
EDIT: My ex works for a studio that's owned by a rather large publisher (I'd prefer not to say, but it's not Bioware) and she confirmed more or less everything Hudson said on his Twitter on Day 1 DLC is completely true. This is how she explained it to me:
After the content's complete, the game goes through the rigors of QA, bug fixing, manufacturing, and getting certification and such from the console-makers which are a lot more involved than you'd expect. Meanwhile, the guys who made the content and aren't involved much in the next phase of making the game work on DLC. If they're lucky, they have Day 1 DLC ready to go as a little something extra. The nature of DLC makes it very quick to work on compared to a full game and it also doesn't have the certification requirements standalone games have, which is probably why you see more DLC instead of more traditional expansion packs.
In the old days, this stuff wouldn't be on the game disc/cart to begin with, and if it was, the game would have been significantly delayed to put it in, saved for an expansion pack, or outright cut from the game never to be seen again.
As for why it isn't free, ultimately these companies are still business that have to pay their employees and development costs and want to make a profit. Games aren't a charity. It was more than likely a decision made by EA than Bioware, but still.
Now that she's on the other side, she's gotten really pissed at gamers for either willfully ignoring or outright acting like entitled brats about these sorta things. Especially the ones that loudly brag that they're going to pirate the game in some sort of "noble quest." Ultimately, if you don't like it, don't buy it. Pirating to become an Internet Hero just makes you look like some self-righteous douchebag.
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Post by Ike on Feb 23, 2012 20:07:41 GMT -5
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Post by X-pert74 on Feb 23, 2012 20:55:12 GMT -5
I saw that too, but it still didn't quite make me decide not to buy it. Knowing what I know now with the twitter post, I still will probably buy it. Knowing that this is DLC though is still upsetting to me. I know what the DLC is of, and it's something that I really wish I had encountered on my own, without having any hint of it beforehand. My experience with Legion in Mass Effect 2 (censored that in case it hints at the nature of this DLC for someone) was seriously astounding; it was something I never would have expected to have happen, based on the events of the first game. But even if I somehow avoided all of the news regarding this, if I went to download the DLC, its own description would already ruin the surprise for me before I have a chance to play it. |
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Post by Warchief Onyx on Feb 23, 2012 21:11:07 GMT -5
A part of me is sort of disappointed that part is getting revealed honestly. One of the things I like most about them is the mystery. I just hope it doesn't pull back the curtain too much. Though one thing to remember is (spoilerz):
The Protheans are just the most recent victims of the Reapers. Much like countless civilizations before them, they evolved around the Reapers' technology and plan, and were wiped out accordingly.
Also I don't know how people take TotalBiscuit seriously when he's like, completely wrong about things a lot. Like he bitched about a bunch of companies that were supporting SOPA that actually weren't. I think he went with a copout explanation of "Well they didn't say they were opposing it either!"
He just seems like he exists to get people riled up with little in the way of actual facts to back it up and heavily distorts the truth to support his viewpoints. He'd probably be a perfect fit at Fox News.
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Post by TheGunheart on Feb 23, 2012 21:17:54 GMT -5
I have the special edition preordered, so the whole thing doesn't really bother me.
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Post by docmarionum1 on Feb 23, 2012 21:27:00 GMT -5
I really don't see why there's any obvious reason that "any content that is done before launch should be on the disk [included in the game]."
Actively taking out finished content from the game just to turn it into DLC is one thing, but what about content that is planned, and funded as DLC? If the DLC is being created by additional staff and additional money above the core team and budget, why should we get it for free? In that case, if it hadn't been done as DLC, it wouldn't have been made at all.
Furthermore, if "Day 1 DLC" is evil, how soon is it okay to release DLC? A week? A month? But with some of these larger DLCs, they would still need to be working on it before the game launches. Should it not be okay to start work on DLC until after launch? What if all work on the game stops a month before launch, but since it's immoral to start working on DLC, they just take a month vacation then. All that would mean is that you get your DLC later. But the game has the same amount of content.
Personally, I'd prefer my DLC to be available as soon as possible. I'd rather have the option of buying it when I'm playing the game, than going back to the game months later and playing some random segment out of context.
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Post by Super Orbus on Feb 23, 2012 21:39:37 GMT -5
Making a distinction between "day 1" DLC as evil vs. dribbling it out over a longer period being good is fairly pointless in my view. You either like and accept DLC and what it's doing to the industry, or you don't. The only distinction is in which release strategy the publisher believes will better succeed in prying the dollars out of your wallet.
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Post by kal on Feb 23, 2012 21:48:29 GMT -5
One of my big issues with DLC is this, lets throw a random large number of total time into game production. Say 200 years* (100 full time workers for 2 years), total cost of game to player $50 ($60 on consoles I guess, I'm not familiar with US pricing). Total time in DLC what maybe 5 - 10* people for less than a year for maybe a total of 10 years, total cost of DLC to player $10 - 15.
Cost for base game per cost of development time - $4
Cost for DLC game per cost of development time - $0.6
Basically, they're making almost 2.5x the amount of money by skimming money with DLC. Make no mistake they want launch DLC because in terms of practical cost the DLC is making close to as much money per sale as the entire rest of the game ratio wise.
*Estimations on my part, someone who has better access to the internal development costs of a AAA Title feel free to correct the numbers here.
The Mass Effect 3 one is particularly bad because of what *SPOILERS* apparently goes down. They planned the DLC before the game went into production, they picked that specific part of the game because they knew it'd have the best chance of moving (it's something people have desired canon wise for BOTH of the previous games). At least Kaeed was pretty superficial to the plot and new purchases got him free.
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Post by TheGunheart on Feb 23, 2012 21:49:36 GMT -5
On a different tangent, is it just me, or did Mass Effect need an additional alignment modifier? Namely, Pro-Human and Pro-Alien. Because it does seem strange that they're tied to the Paragon and Renegade alignments without anyone bothering to advertise this. So instead of being simply ruthlessly pragmatic, a full Renegade Shepard is also a human supremacist.
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Post by Super Orbus on Feb 23, 2012 21:54:50 GMT -5
Which is strange, because pragmatically speaking, the aliens are way cooler. Most of the humans in the Mass Effect universe are idiots.
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