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Post by zellsf on May 12, 2011 0:41:56 GMT -5
They were apparently hashed (and encrypting passwords would be a bad idea).
Assuming they will do 10x better than their competition when put in a similar situation sounds very pro-Microsoft to me. And it's still an assumption.
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Post by Ike on May 12, 2011 0:43:23 GMT -5
Assuming they will do 10x better than their competition when put in a similar situation sounds very pro-Microsoft to me. And it's still an assumption. so that whole PSN being down for a month-and-a-half thing and xbox live never doing that doesn't count huh |
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Post by kitten on May 12, 2011 0:46:51 GMT -5
Not to mention that Xbox Live has been around much longer and had much more time for such a hack to occur.
Zell, seriously, you're being absolutely ridiculous and naive.
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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2011 7:04:55 GMT -5
I guess to play devil's advocate, Sony probably doesn't have a fanbase that consists mostly of /b/-tards and other reactionary trolls that would stoop to things like tormenting little girls. So yeah, it's definitely less likely to happen to Microsoft. Sony fans are just smug and are content in their smugness.
That being said, taking until the end of May is patently ridiculous. My brother just bought a PS3 and he can't even use it for Netflix like he was hoping, since you need to be logged in to PSN to register your system.
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Post by zellsf on May 12, 2011 9:58:58 GMT -5
Xbox Live never had a massive security breach leading to leaked personal data. It's not a situation Microsoft has ever been in so we have no idea if they would do any better. Nor do we really have any idea if the length of the downtime is even a bad thing.
Insignificant difference in launch dates and time is hardly the only factor. If you consider a system secure on the only criteria that a breach has yet to occur I don't know what to say... Let's go with the assumption that Sony's security is as horrible as some of you people think. Do you think it just took hackers FOUR years to notice?
At least I'm not the one who started with these ridiculous Microsoft comparisons.
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Post by Warchief Onyx on May 12, 2011 10:01:04 GMT -5
Have you SEEN the Sony defense force (not just the site which I think is a troll, but Sony fanboys in general)? Their apologism and sycophancy during this whole thing is as pathetic as it is hilarious.
I think it's pretty safe to assume that the PSN hacking was reactionary to the Geohotz (or whatever his name was) lawsuit. That's why SOE's servers were attacked, too. MS hasn't shown the same disdain for his ilk, but I think they'd probably be better at managing a major hacking attempt if only because of their experience in the computer world. Sony's pretty new to the online infrastructure thing and I'm sure that played some part in why their security was so poor.
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Post by zellsf on May 12, 2011 10:15:11 GMT -5
Could easily be a coincidence. It is somewhat valuable information and I'm sure there were lots more people trying to steal it than those wanting to send a message.
I agree it's probable, just not just fact as some people seem to imply.
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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2011 10:21:43 GMT -5
Have you SEEN the Sony defense force (not just the site which I think is a troll, but Sony fanboys in general)? Their apologism and sycophancy during this whole thing is as pathetic as it is hilarious. (not sure if this was to zell or me ;p hee hee) But yeah, ugh, those guys are the worst. My comment was mostly that I get the impression of PS3 fanboys being the type of trolls that would sooner sit in their basement stewing in their own farts and elevated feeling of self-worth than like, actually mount an attack or do something proactive. Coordinating a DDoS also means working with other people, which is difficult when you don't even have basic social skills. |
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Post by zellsf on May 12, 2011 10:43:29 GMT -5
I'm not really defending Sony. Their handling of this situation has been awful. I can't say for sure how bad their security was, but their public relations on this matter is a mess.
I don't however see why people think it's so certain Microsoft would do so much better. Maybe they would, maybe they wouldn't. Let's all hope we never find out and even when we do all of us have learned to use point cards.
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Post by kitten on May 12, 2011 13:27:49 GMT -5
I don't however see why people think it's so certain Microsoft would do so much better. Maybe they would, maybe they wouldn't. Let's all hope we never find out and even when we do all of us have learned to use point cards. Xbox Live has never been hacked like this, and has been around for 8 and a half years. It has had few, but significant firmware updates that interrupt online play. PSN has been around for 4 and a half years and has constant, irregularly scheduled updates that interrupt online play and has now been down for about a month with no sign it's going back up for another few weeks, despite repeated promises. "It's free" is no longer an excuse with Playstation Plus subscribers getting hit hard by this. PSN is also notoriously easier to play hacked online games with. Xbox Live definitely has its fair share of hackers, but they're very aggressive about cracking down on them as quickly as possible. Sony's policing of the service is fucking embarrassingly poor and hilariously easy to abuse. I don't know if you've ever tried playing a Call of Duty game on both systems, but the difference is phenomenal in terms of which netcode performs better and which system has more games ruined because hackers. Microsoft also has years of experience with online security that Sony just doesn't have, and, as clearly evidenced, doesn't really care so much about having even after it's become a public catastrophe. They know and understand the importance of customer service and keeping their service secure, and have evidenced it repeatedly while Sony has constantly evidenced the contrary. Microsoft has had to go down before for a day a couple times, before, and offered free games when this has happened (Undertow and Carcassonne). Who is to say that those down times weren't because of hacker attempts, we were just told it was maintenance. Sure, you can say Microsoft wouldn't handle this any better, but you're just being a smug brat playing devil's advocate. It is like betting on a donkey in a horse race and then turning to the person sitting next to you and saying "yeah, well the one with the most bets on it and best track record could have tripped over its own two feet just as easily." "Maybe the company with a better, longer track record, better customer service and better history of security (remember when Sony put DRM's in music CD's and then didn't tell people?) wouldn't do better than a company with a history of being worse in all of those departments. I mean, you can't prove that they would." |
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Post by megatronbison on May 12, 2011 13:31:11 GMT -5
Yeah so Sony is taking way longer than Microsoft would to fix this. So the people who are pro microsoft- what do you actually gain from this? I am curious why so many people get so aggressive over this kind of stuff. I wouldnt' argue that I'm "pro-Microsoft," it's just that Xbox Live is a considerably more secure and robust service with infinitely better customer service. Sony's handling of this situation and the very fact that it even got to the point where it happened is evidence of how inferior the service is and how little they care about actually keeping their customers happy or even securing their information (they didn't even encrypt passwords). I suppose, to an extent, my being aggressive about it is mostly because I'm sick of having to listen to people argue that Sony is by any measure a better company than Microsoft when it comes to this issue. Sony "fanboys" are painfully blind and ignorant when it tends to come to defense of their service, and this situation is really proving how ridiculous the brand loyalty is. There are reasons to prefer PSN, I'll definitely admit that, and plenty of legitimacy behind considering it the better service for you even after this event, but it's just a seriously embarrassing hit for Sony and I'm hoping it knocks their swarms of blind loyals down a few rungs. I wasn't having a go Kitty- well, not at you anyways  Fanboys just- they irk me so! Onyx - yeah I know it is- god knows I am immature but my experiences on Xbox Live etc were enough to put me off online gaming for life anyways ;D |
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Post by cj iwakura on May 12, 2011 13:31:37 GMT -5
My stance is basically that things happen. I'll live. A month without PSN won't hurt me.
I'm the last person to want to defend Sony(like I'll ever forget the Saturn & Dreamcast debacles), but I'm not stressing. It's a nuisance, little else. I have plenty single player games to tide me over.
What DOES annoy me is the delay this will cause for Wizardry, but eh. Out of my hands.
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Post by zellsf on May 12, 2011 14:20:00 GMT -5
Xbox Live for the original Xbox was not remotely as attractive a target as the modern services. Call of Duty on PC/PS3 is a mess, Activision's fault, not Sony's. I don't see how this or how Sony chooses to do software updates has any relevance to any discussion going on at the moment.
That's not what I'm saying. Are you even listening? I'm saying we have no idea if Microsoft would handle this better or not. You can say it is probable. Not certain.
As for comparing security track records across everything (audio CDs included...) that would get ridiculous, they're very different companies offering very different services. They also probably have very different employees working on different projects. Maybe the guys who used to handle Internet Explorer security are now working on Xbox Live.
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Post by kitten on May 12, 2011 14:36:51 GMT -5
That's not what I'm saying. Are you even listening? I'm saying we have no idea if Microsoft would handle this better or not. You can say it is probable. Not certain. Are you even listening to me? Yes, it's not necessarily 100% certain, but it's so highly probable that it's not worth considering that they would treat the situation remotely this poorly. Why you keep repeatedly arguing that it's just a "maybe," when tons of evidence and history supports that Microsoft would handle the situation better? I mean, you can't prove I won't be abducted by aliens in five minutes, but you can use a little common sense to estimate that I'm not going to be. |
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Post by cj iwakura on May 12, 2011 14:38:57 GMT -5
It's just conjecture, though. We have absolutely no knowledge of what was done to Sony, and no way of knowing if Microsoft would fare any better.
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