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Post by megatronbison on May 12, 2011 14:39:54 GMT -5
I think we can all say this - the situation sucks. Theres no real need to keep this arguement going.
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Post by Feynman on May 12, 2011 14:53:06 GMT -5
What DOES annoy me is the delay this will cause for Wizardry, but eh. Out of my hands. Was Wizardry scheduled to be released during this outage? If so, nooooooooo! I need my dungeon crawl fix! zellsf and Kitten: Microsoft is better at how they've handled their online service, and I think that's to be expected - Microsoft is a software and technology company with the years and years of network (and network security) experience that comes with developing the world's most popular OS. In contrast, Sony is little more than a consumer electronics company. That said, online service was never a factor when I bought my PS3. I rarely play games online, and when I do, it's almost always on my PC. So while I'm upset with how Sony handled the whole fiasco from a customer relations standpoint, the actual event and resulting service outage doesn't really bother me... it just means I have to wait a while before I buy anything from the PSN store. What annoys me is the implication I see all the time that anybody who prefers the PS3 must be a blind fanboy. 360 owners love to look at each other and say, "Those poor PS3 owners. Xbox live is so much better. They have no idea what they're missing! Tsk tsk." Well, I know exactly what I'm missing, and I felt the tradeoff was worth it. The 360 was my first next-gen console, which I later replaced with a PS3 for a variety of reasons. The PS3 has more of the quirky Japanese games I enjoy. The PS3 offers a free online service, which suits me better since I hardly ever play console games online (seriously, on average I spend no more than a week per year playing console titles online). I had multiple 360s RRoD on me, and no, I'm not trying to start that argument again, and I know the new 360s are significaantly improved in that regard. But at the time, having to periodically ship my 360 off to wait for a repair was annoying as hell, and interrupted my gaming more than the current PSN online outage does. If I were a big FPS player or online console gamer, I would probably still own a 360. But I'm not. I'm a single-player console gamer, and most of my online play is on the PC, when I choose to play online at all. So I'm still happy with my PS3, regardless of Sony's retarded behavior. And while the Sony fanboys can be annoying as hell, let me tell you that 360 fanboys are just as bad, and they tend to be aggressive rather than defensive in nature. Michiyo... whatever the hell his name is came back to these boards for like one day specifically because this situation gave him an excuse to bash Sony and troll PS3 owners. |
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Post by kitten on May 12, 2011 15:05:14 GMT -5
It's just conjecture, though. We have absolutely no knowledge of what was done to Sony, and no way of knowing if Microsoft would fare any better. It's not just conjecture. Similar companies like Apple have had pretty bad breaches before, and have handled the situation much better. Sony's handling of this situation is seriously just notorious. It's difficult to compare to anything because it's so absurd. Yeah, I cannot prove beyond any shadow of a doubt that Microsoft is more secure to the point where this wouldn't happen, or that their customer service would 100% certainly handle this situation better, but you can look at the history and make a pretty logical estimation that it would be a lot better and that they do have better security preventing this kind of thing from happening. I mean, maybe because some of you guys are gamers, you don't understand the severity and utter fucking ridiculousness of how bad Sony has bombed this situation. It may not affect you much, but this is a huge fucking deal and has already been estimated that it's going to cost Sony over one billion dollars. That's NOT EVEN GETTING INTO how much it's costing all of Sony's affiliates, who rely on that service being available to sell their products, or the irreparable and incalculable harm this is going to do to their reputation and loyalty. This is something that is pretty much incomparable in modern times in terms of PR failure and security breaching. It's not just "Oh, I can't get online a few weeks and I guess I need to change my password. I mean, this could just happen to any company, and I guess they're handling it." What annoys me is the implication I see all the time that anybody who prefers the PS3 must be a blind fanboy. 360 owners love to look at each other and say, "Those poor PS3 owners. Xbox live is so much better. They have no idea what they're missing! Tsk tsk." Well, I know exactly what I'm missing, and I felt the tradeoff was worth it. To quote myself from earlier - "There are reasons to prefer PSN, I'll definitely admit that, and plenty of legitimacy behind considering it the better service for you even after this event, but it's just a seriously embarrassing hit for Sony and I'm hoping it knocks their swarms of blind loyals down a few rungs. " |
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Post by zellsf on May 12, 2011 15:37:38 GMT -5
That's not what I'm saying. Are you even listening? I'm saying we have no idea if Microsoft would handle this better or not. You can say it is probable. Not certain. Are you even listening to me? Yes, it's not necessarily 100% certain, but it's so highly probable that it's not worth considering that they would treat the situation remotely this poorly. Why you keep repeatedly arguing that it's just a "maybe," when tons of evidence and history supports that Microsoft would handle the situation better? Well, most major software products by Microsoft has at some point had fairly severe security exploits, why is it as you say 99% possibility that Xbox Live won't be the same? Assuming that it's the security that makes you say that it's that close to certain that is. Downtime length, who knows if that's even Sony's fault or third party auditing. Public relations? Can't remember last time Microsoft had serious use for that department. I'm wondering exactly what makes you be SO sure that they'll do THAT much better. |
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Post by Ike on May 12, 2011 15:45:15 GMT -5
I'm wondering exactly what makes you be SO sure that they'll do THAT much better. you answered your own question |
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Post by kitten on May 12, 2011 15:53:00 GMT -5
It's much less "Microsoft is a good company" than it is "Sony is an utterly shit one." I mean, if we look earlier into the thread, even the FBI was suspicious of why it took Sony so long to react to their customers. A security breach on a gaming platform like this one is literally unparalleled, and Sony has a history of being steps behind on the PSN as a service (messaging, chat, XMB, trophies, invites, organization, firmware updates, etc.). The fact they had shitty security and had everything compromised when Microsoft hasn't, despite being around twice as long, also seems like pretty good evidence.
They're both less likely to have something like this happen and more likely to have considerably better treatment of their customers. Microsoft has always been proactive about informing their users about downtime or other issues (like when they dropped service for original Xbox games, you got 3 free months of Xbox Live, $5 worth of Microsoft Points and beta access to Halo: Reach if you had been a player of the only really active original XBL game left [you were notified via e-mail, twice, and over Xbox messaging, twice]. Or when they made a huge deal about taking in RRoD consoles for absolutely free, whereas Sony basically hid their PS2 had issues and only temporarily offered compensation). Sony has a history of not keeping in touch and just being shitty to their customers.
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Post by caoslayer on May 12, 2011 15:55:36 GMT -5
"Sony is an utterly shit one." You needed this to realize it? |
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Post by cj iwakura on May 12, 2011 15:57:45 GMT -5
And Microsoft are somehow a saintly company? The guys who wouldn't let Aksys publish Castle Shikigami 3 on their console?
Screw them.
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Post by kitten on May 12, 2011 16:07:49 GMT -5
"Sony is an utterly shit one." You needed this to realize it? Absolutely not  This is just further evidence. Glaring, irrefutable, public-relations-destroying evidence. And Microsoft are somehow a saintly company? The guys who wouldn't let Aksys publish Castle Shikigami 3 on their console? Screw them. Oh, please. Compare that to SCEA's policy that prevented dozens of 2D games being properly released. Like I said, I don't believe Microsoft is good, but good fucking God they're not as low as Sony. |
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Post by cj iwakura on May 12, 2011 16:12:53 GMT -5
Oh, I know how evil Sony are, believe me. I'm a Sega fan. But Microsoft aren't much better.
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Post by Warchief Onyx on May 12, 2011 17:53:47 GMT -5
I don't think anyone's actually saying that MS is the bestest company in the world. I also don't see the relevance of MS not letting some niche shmup being published has anything to do with the integrity of their online network. But keep throwing strawmen out there.
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Post by Atma on May 12, 2011 18:51:48 GMT -5
Sorry, but I'm going to come up and say I'm in the camp of this entire incident has barely bothered me in the least. Had it happened to any other company, the fanboys for it would suck their metaphorical cocks and annoy the sane fans and haters alike, and the haters would pile it on and say WELL I THINK and WELL THIS MAYBE and here's the thing, we really don't know jack shit about the attack or if anyone could or would handle it better.
I hope nobody else gets hacked and nobody has to prove anything. It's not a fun thing. Nobody really "deserves" it. But nobody is unhackable either. Most big companies and our government tend to have the worst securities, so honestly this never came as a shock to me.
So hackers may have a long since expired credit card number of mine at an address that is abandoned now and the last name I'm in the process of legally changing from. I find that hilarious myself. They can keep my old last name, it sucked anyways.
I barely play games online myself; even in MMOs I tend to stick to myself. So that's not an issue. I want to play the new Wizardry too but that will have to wait. That's fine; gives me more time to make sure I want it and have money.
But really, had this been Nintendo or Microsoft, the same situation would be happening now. I'm not defending Sony at all; they really could be doing this all much better and faster, but it's not like they begged someone to attack them or offered our info to the hackers as a joke. They didn't do it to spite any company that publishes for them. Same as if anyone else had been hacked.
I really wasn't going to say anything on this topic but damn, the extremism on all sides is really starting to piss me off. It's a shitty situation that I'd feel at least a bit of sympathy for Nintendo or Microsoft over, even if I don't really support them much (or at all) right now.
Hackers are assholes and ruining it for everyone here in every way. Whether you hate Sony or worship them or are just someone in the middle trying to see both sides, it's getting to everyone, and that was probably an aim of the attack was to work people up.
Ah well.
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Post by acidonia on May 12, 2011 19:28:36 GMT -5
You needed this to realize it? Absolutely not This is just further evidence. Glaring, irrefutable, public-relations-destroying evidence. And Microsoft are somehow a saintly company? The guys who wouldn't let Aksys publish Castle Shikigami 3 on their console? Screw them. Oh, please. Compare that to SCEA's policy that prevented dozens of 2D games being properly released. Like I said, I don't believe Microsoft is good, but good fucking God they're not as low as Sony. It not just 2d Stuff they hated alots of Japanese Budget games (Some great ones as well) Sony Probally Refused realese in America thanks to sony eg Simple 2000 series Europe had over 25 Titles of the series Localised by Various Publishers. How many Simple series games made it to America just one  . Still Sony of America still have the stupid rule of if it has no english dub it can not be sold on Disc but only on PSN which is a rule that hurts publishers Sales. It's all been said before in this thread but for Online stuff the 360 is better than PSN for alot of reasons. |
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Post by kitten on May 12, 2011 19:29:45 GMT -5
we really don't know jack shit about the attack or if anyone could or would handle it better. A lot of information about the attack has been publicly released, then there are things like this article about how Sony's security was shitty. Notice the date. Yeah, that's before the attack. Sony knew they had shitty security. The FBI also questioned Sony for how long it took them to get to their customers about this. Everyone knows Sony did shitty, don't sit there and pull the "we don't know jack shit," because the information is all over the net and very easy to find. They're being torn apart by everyone that can report it for very good reason. They could have handled this much, much better, or even prevented it from happening. This is the very first time there has been a breach of this scale related to video gaming. It's kind of shocking, even for me, and I loathe Sony. The fact they would handle a situation this poorly or even allow it to happen is utterly ridiculous. This isn't just "oh, shit happens," it's actually quite serious. Sony is losing a billion dollars. A billion dollars doesn't just grow from trees, it's kind of a lot of money. This is in addition to their third party supporters losing tons of money, and the incalculable amount they're going to lose from loss of faith and support. That's cool, you don't care. You're one of seventy-seven fucking million people who got hit. Compromising even a few thousand is a pretty serious matter. Compromising a million is ridiculous. Compromising dozens of millions is just fucking crazy. Oh yeah, another 24 million were hit in Europe, bringing the total to over 100 million! I guarantee at least a percentage of these people are FURIOUS that their information was compromised, and 1% of 100 million is still one million people. This is a tremendous, tremendous fuck-up. If you don't care, that's fine. This happened to a lot more people than you. If you don't play online, why are you even trying to argue about the severity of this situation? You don't play a great deal of video games, as-is. I could probably count the retail PS3 games you own on one hand, and the number of PS3 games you've played online with one finger. You are writing up a big defense, here, not only with a dire lack of information about the subject, but barely even being in the category of the affected. No, it wouldn't. You have no information to support your claims, have done no research on the matter, and have no experience to support it, either. I have no idea why you're even making this claim. It's a shitty situation that I'd feel at least a bit of sympathy for Nintendo or Microsoft over, even if I don't really support them much (or at all) right now. Over 100 million people have information compromised and cannot access a service they very may well have gotten on daily to interact with their friends over. You then say you don't give a shit it happens to you and imply we should have sympathy for Sony, who took a damn week to even let their customers know what was going on and had the awful security to have something like this happen in the first place. If you want to show sympathy, you might want to start by showing it to the people who deserve it, the people who were wronged by this breach of security, terrible customer service and silence by the people they gave their money to, and not the corporation who sat on their asses and went "do we even send an e-mail about this? I dunno, man." |
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Post by Warchief Onyx on May 12, 2011 20:13:03 GMT -5
If this happened to Xbox Live and if MS handled it with the same outright incompetence Sony has done with PSN, I'd be way more pissed. I don't even own a PS3 so this doesn't really affect me too much. It's just me facepalming and shaking my head at how badly Sony's been mangling this. I have a PSN count since I bought Suikoden on my PSP. But that was with a now expired debit card.
HOWEVER, I'm an active user of Xbox Live. Live Gold for that matter. So there'd be that, plus a lot of seething anger on my part.
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This is just further evidence. Glaring, irrefutable, public-relations-destroying evidence.
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