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Post by Discoalucard on Jun 27, 2006 10:18:06 GMT -5
I'm thinking about writing something on disappointing sequels, and I'm trying to come up with a list. I'm more looking for games that the fanbase seems to dislike - I rather like most of the titles I've listed below, but a lot of people don't, and I can see why. What I've come up with so far, and why they seem to be disliked:
Doom 3: Changed from run-and-gun to more of a survival horror game, repetitive environments included.
Deus Ex Invisible War: Removed the skill system, much shorter, poor graphics engine (more apparently in the PC version)
Chrono Cross: Stylistically different from Trigger in nearly every possible way, especially graphics and structure, and only vaguely related in story. Also feels unfinished in many areas.
Final Fantasy 8: Most people started with 7, and didn't realize so many things changed with each installments. Junction system was strange, required lots of time "drawing" spells. The characters were generally unlikable or annoying. (although various FFs are picked on a lot, this seems like the most reviled)
Suikoden 4: I'm not sure, but practically everyone Suikoden fan I know hates this game immensely. A lot of people were disappointed in 3 too, but it's also generally well liked. (I thought it was just as good as 2 personally, but since it doesn't go for $100 on eBay it's not regarded in the same way)
Unreal 2: I guess? I know Unreal was a big name at some point, but after the Tournament games, they put out this and everyone seemed to hate it.
Street Fighter 3: Even though it's regarded as one of the best 2D fighters now, when this game came out, people hated it. Totally new characters except for Ken and Ryu, and didn't really feel much evolved after SF2.
Zelda 2: Completely removed all of the puzzle aspects, and focused more on action. People still this day hate this game.
Any other juicy ones? Based on what I'm hearing, FFXII and Valkyrie Profile 2 might end up on here, but those aren't out in America yet so I don't think I'd consider them.
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Post by MRSKELETON on Jun 27, 2006 11:05:34 GMT -5
I don't hate zelda two. In fact it's one of my more favorite games in the series
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Post by shido on Jun 27, 2006 11:29:02 GMT -5
Valkyrie Profile 2 is a disappointment? Are you sure? Where did you hear that? Its my most anticipated game And for your article: Super Mario Sunshine, MMX5-7, Devil May Cry 2, Lunar: Dragon Song, Phantasy Star 3, Sonic 3D Blast and Master of Orion 3. Oh, and there are quite a lot of people that think Chrono Cross is as good as Chrono Trigger or even more (I'm one of them)
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Post by Discoalucard on Jun 27, 2006 11:48:20 GMT -5
My sources are...uhh.../v/ on 4chan and GameFAQS, which aren't exactly the most intelligent places. The general complaints are that the structure is radically different, it's a bit closer to your standard RPG instead of flying around and gathering souls. You can still recruit lots of people and train them, but apparently there's a lot less backstory. Still, this is all hearsay - I got the game yesterday but barely played it. I can say the music (especially the battle theme) isn't quite as good.
I can't believe I forgot Devil May Cry 2 though, that's a pretty big one. Lunar DS and Phantasy Star 3 are good picks too.
Is there that much hate for Super Mario Sunshine? I've seen a number of people loathe it, but I got the impression that most people were OK with it, even if it wasn't the second coming of Mario 64.
It's hard to pinpoint where Megaman came crashing down, because it was so gradual. I liked X5 and X6 was annoying but playable, but X7 was atrocious. But then again, a lot of people abandoned the series after 2 or 3 on the NES - not because the later ones were bad, but just because they didn't get any better.
I personally like Cross better than Trigger, and Zelda 2 is probably my favorite of the series. I like getting together reasons that other people dislike them though.
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Post by Shinigami on Jun 27, 2006 12:16:32 GMT -5
Don't ask me how but fans of the Gradius series seem to find Gradius 4 to being less than stellar.
Here are some other ones, King of Fighters 2001, Prince of Persia Warrior Within, Viewtiful Joe 2, Sonic Heroes (if you consider it a sequel to the Adventure games). I didn't like FFX-2 but I can't speak for the rest of the FF fans who apperantly loved it.
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Post by YourAverageJoe on Jun 27, 2006 12:17:39 GMT -5
Megaman 4 comes to mind, for being just plain annoying, and removing Rush-Jet's flexibility from no. 3. Also Megaman II for the Gameboy, which literally had music designed to kill. I object to Megaman X 5 though, the Falcon armor added a whole new level of exploration and fighting, along with the awesome music. X 7 had everything that made X 6 annoying and then some: killable reploids, horrible stage design, along with those horrible HORRIBLE Maverick names exclaimed in every single Maverick introduction sequence.
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Post by Discoalucard on Jun 27, 2006 12:32:33 GMT -5
Warrior Within, definitely. Actually, Final Fantasy X-2 might fit in there too, I actually don't know a single person that likes that game at all (myself included.)
Gradius 4 I wasn't that hot on either. Mostly because it's an OK Gradius game but a poor follow-up to Gaiden. It strips down the weapons, no two player, levels aren't as cool, etc. Gradius and KoF are relatively obscure-ish though, I don't know how much in detail I want to get or just cover the "big" games.
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Post by Neo Rasa on Jun 27, 2006 12:43:58 GMT -5
If you want to know when Mega Man came "crashing down" you could start with MM4. It's a great game overall but the garish visuals and dumb boss designs is what turned most people off from the series; Leaving 5 and 6 relatively forgotten. As far as the MMX series goes I only really like the first two. Something important to note with SF3 is that it IS a horrible, terrible, unbalanced, slow game that isn't fun at all. It wasn't until Second Impact and later Third Strike came out that it became worth playing. Most people who like SF3 today are basing the liking on one of these two upgrades while New Generation hasn't been played since. Unreal 2: The Awakening: www.somethingawful.com/index.php?a=1322
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2006 12:50:13 GMT -5
This does not reflect my personal opinion of the games, but here's two "metals" for you: Metal Slug 4 and Metal Gear Solid 2. I can see why MS4 was booed... replaced Tarma and Eri with "meh" Trevor and "okay" Nadia, had fairly humdrum levels and enemy designs, and it had the unfortunate honor of being the MS game after the immortal MS3, so it was a tough act to follow, and it didn't quite match up to its predecessors. However, in its defense, the music was kickass, and the gameplay was still vicious. Plus, it was made after the original SNK disbanded, and it was a better follow-up to the MS series than KoF2001 was to the KoF series... And as for Metal Gear Solid 2, I think part of the reason why it didn't live up to everyone's expectations were... well, the expectations themselves. Everybody built up their anticipations and hoped that it would totally exceed the original MGS, and things were great during the entire Tanker scene... then Raiden came in, and when gamers realized that they wouldn't be playing much as Snake, tears were shed. And then there was all of the ridiculous Deus Ex Machina plot mindfucks near the end with more twists than a cyclone with all of M. Night Shyamalan's movies spinning around inside. I personally think that MGS2 was real kickass, and it actually becomes quite enjoyable with a tolerant willing suspension of disbelief. But tell that to the anti-Raiden haters. I would say Castlevania 2, but it has become something of a cult classic in recent times. When it first came out, many were rather thrown off by the emphasis on adventure over action. It's one of my favorite freaking games of all time, though. However... Castlevania 64 was... I'll admit that its control was a bit slow and it had some tedious scenes. The atmosphere had to be the creepiest in the CV saga, but lots of people aren't very fond of it. Personally, I do like it, but I can see why others wouldn't.
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Post by Discoalucard on Jun 27, 2006 13:00:18 GMT -5
MGS2 is another huge one, can't believe I missed that either.
I'm not sure about Castlevania 2, actually. Nowdays it's pretty well regarded by Castlevania fans, and since it was partially an inspiration for Symphony, most people seem OK with it. Castlevania 64 though could definitely be counted.
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Post by Shinigami on Jun 27, 2006 13:16:35 GMT -5
I used be an anti-Raiden hater. It wasn't until MGS3 that I could appreciate MGS2.
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Post by Bloodreign on Jun 27, 2006 13:46:05 GMT -5
Don't ask me how but fans of the Gradius series seem to find Gradius 4 to being less than stellar. I'm probably one of the few Gradius fans who actually appreciated what Gradius 4 brought to the table, a damned fun game, music that eventually grows on you, and not nearly as difficult as Gradius 3. ;D
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Post by MRSKELETON on Jun 27, 2006 13:53:22 GMT -5
Excuse me for breaking topic What is valkyrie profile?
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Post by ReyVGM on Jun 27, 2006 13:56:49 GMT -5
how about.... contra force? legacy of war? final fantasy 2 (original)?
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Post by Discoalucard on Jun 27, 2006 14:11:31 GMT -5
Contra Force and Legacy of War are good. Not so sure about Final Fantasy 2, since it wasn't translated until LONG after it was originally released.
Valkyrie Profile is a PSOne RPG from Tri-Ace, the people behind Star Ocean. The idea was that you were a valkyrie who had to collect the souls of departed warriors and train them for the Ragnarok, the battle at the end of the world. Naturally, a lot of it was taken from Norse mythology. All of the dungeons are 2D side-scrolling, and has a twitchy battle system that requires juggling enemies. Even though it has a number of annoying flaws, it's one of the most innovative RPGs on the platform, so it at least deserves a fair amount of respect. The soundtrack is excellent too. It's been released on the PSP, which should be coming out in English around the same time VP2 hits here, which is I guess around September (pretty quick localization turnaround.)
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