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Post by megatronbison on Jun 27, 2011 13:25:21 GMT -5
Oh I agree with all of this. I just see a lot more "Japan sux!!!" online these days- even from so called professional reviewers. You mean these ones who think that most jrpg are all about emo protagonists with spiky hairs and big swords?  Is this where you want me to say "bald space marines and Call of Duty clones?" cause tbh, I find the J-RPG character designs just as hideous as those these days. |
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Post by muteKi on Jun 27, 2011 15:35:30 GMT -5
Oh I agree with all of this. I just see a lot more "Japan sux!!!" online these days- even from so called professional reviewers. You mean these ones who think that most jrpg are all about emo protagonists with spiky hairs and big swords? No, man, you don't get it. See, they're all girls, and they're twelve. And then you have sex with them. The horrors! |
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Post by Sac (a.k.a Icaras) on Jun 27, 2011 23:46:54 GMT -5
I'm coming in a bit late here, but back to an earlier point about Sony. Keep in mind that sony was HACKED. HACKED!
They didn't just ask some dude to come in adn leave a folder lying around with password details, somebody/some team broke their way through the security measures (and let's face it, is the average user like us gonna be able to do this? I think not) and STOLE info.
Weather or not the security wa sgood enough can be debated, but the fact that it was present and was broken open shows that the real evil (in the context of this discussion point) was the scum hackers.
and you know why they did? for "good" hell no they were open that it was for "the lulz" or something euqlly foolish.
I freaking hate people like that, as they not only thieved details, but they caused the shutdown of sony's online services which caused people inconviance.
Don't blame the sony, blame the hacker.
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Post by kitten on Jun 28, 2011 0:59:42 GMT -5
And Kitten: I wish I could give you some insider info to prove my point, but suffice it to say, Sony is NOT evil. Not even close. Given their pompous advertising, history of poor customer service and numerous, awful faux pas, they sure as hell don't show it! Maybe they've been friendly to you as a company that publishes games on their consoles, but on every other account they display themselves as nothing other than evil and I have no reason to believe otherwise. Have you even been following anything at all about the hackers since the event? They've been hacking damn near anything, whether or not they have a beef with it. They seem to have a penchant for exploiting any security they can. Saying they were hellbent hackers that could have hacked anything is ridiculous, they were able to hack Sony because it was easy, not just because of crazy superhacker conviction. I would be surprised if they haven't already tried to hack Microsoft just as well. Are you KIDDING ME!? The only ones to blame? Wyrdward, you're completely and utterly deluded on this subject. Did you even follow how poorly they handled the situation after getting hacked? They care about their customers? The ones they took over a week to even inform they had been hacked and that their personal information was compromised? Maybe you've never worked customer service and don't comprehend how much they wronged their user base, but Sony fucked up really badly. There was nearly unanimous criticism from reporters about how poorly they handled the situation and even the FBI had to question them about why it took them so long to get to their customer base about incident. Hardly anyone in the US gives a shit about Otaku culture because it's profoundly awful, uninteresting and pathetic. From what I can tell, it looks like a mediocre Yakuza-wannabe where you tear clothes off. This really falls into both the vapid fetish fuel and insular sections of what I was criticizing about Japanese game design, earlier - beat 'em ups are nearly dead, and the only people who are going to care about a mediocre one that plays poorly from Japan are the Japanese. I'll agree with this one. Neither of these games look even slightly interesting to me, or do anything to distinguish themselves from any other generic anime game I've seen. Dangan Ronpa looks particularly awful in character design. Looks pretty, sometimes, but the combat looks no better than Devil May Cry, and I grew tired of Devil May Cry when I beat it about ten years ago. While the game does look artistically innovative (albeit not very appealing to me), the way the game plays shows absolutely nothing to differentiate itself from a ten year history of bland hack n slash games. Like I've already admitted, Atlus is still doing some cool stuff. Catherine looks interesting. I'm not a big fan of puzzle games, but I'm really interested in the premise of the game and I can't say it isn't trying something fresh and new. Combat looks awful (more boring, uninspired beat 'em up/hack n slash gameplay). Setting looks dull. Gravity mechanic seems to do nothing interesting but change the surface you're on. I heard of the original corpse party some time ago, watched some videos, and found myself very uninterested. I was disappointed that I had been recommended to play it after enjoying Yume Nikki. Did you seriously link me this? Isn't To Heart some dating sim series? I have one of the anime series that a friend gave me, and I've never watched it. If a game with awful character designs inspired by a dating sim put into a boring dungeon crawler was meant to make me feel like Japan isn't stagnating, you might want to rethink what your evaluation of video games. It doesn't, at all! You are very sincerely only making me feel even worse about the situation than I did beforehand by trying to argue that these games are proof that Japan is still growing anything but their insularity. Most of what you have used as examples are games that I would honestly use to bolster my own argument that Japan is doing nothing but stagnating. Most of these are low-budget handheld games with generic anime themes that rely heavily on visual novel-esque gameplay. They are dated, they are not innovative, they are ugly and they are unappealing. Arguably, Japanese culture, in general, has hit a very stagnant point - the hikkikomori phenomenon's popularity, lower birth rates and higher suicide rates definitely indicate that they're on hard times. Don't get me wrong, there's still Japanese entertainment that is good (I've bought quite a few Japanese games this year, and still love some new Japanese games), it just comes by considerably less often and signs only point to things getting worse with financial reports from companies like Square-Enix. Anime quality has nose-dived, game quality has nose-dived - it's sad and it bothers me. We can argue with each other until we're blue in the face as to what is "good" and what's not, but it's widespread critical reception, not just my own, and I'm on the extremely popular opinion's side. To repeat myself - Japan isn't doing poorly in gaming because they're misunderstood or all their good games are going under the radar, they're doing poorly because they're freaking atrophying. |
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Post by muteKi on Jun 28, 2011 1:12:45 GMT -5
Hardly anyone in the US gives a shit about Otaku culture because it's profoundly awful, uninteresting and pathetic. Now, that's not quite true. Just as many people love it on account of that. It's an easy target! |
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Post by kitten on Jun 28, 2011 1:17:49 GMT -5
There's a niche for it, but it's one that seems to be thankfully decreasing, is barely enough to constitute worthy sales (not enough to constitute localization in the case of that acquire game), and is only vocal on the internet.
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Post by wyrdwad on Jun 28, 2011 2:50:29 GMT -5
Suffice it to say, I completely and totally disagree with almost everything you just said. I'm not about to go point by point and argue as to why the games I named are unique and interesting, but I will say that you shouldn't judge a book by its cover. Akiba's Trip is not just a "Yakuza clone where you tear clothing off," but a tremendously clever, witty and well-written work of satire that can stand toe-to-toe with anime like "Welcome to the NHK" and "Paranoia Agent" in terms of its artistic merit IMHO. And Dangan Ronpa... well, let's just say, try actually PLAYING the game sometime, then see if you can still argue against it. It's one of the most unique games I've seen in the last decade, with every aspect of it from gameplay to setting to graphical style doing something new and unique that I've honestly never seen before in any video game. The same can be said of Gachitora, which is actually a game that, at its core, is about ARGUMENT, DEBATE AND THE POWER OF WORDS... and manages to twist these concepts, metaphorically and directly, into a fighting game. It's probably the single most unique fighting game I've ever seen, and the way it utilizes its theme is nothing short of brilliant.
I could similarly dissect every other game I listed, including To Heart 2: Dungeon Travelers (which is something of a historic title in its genre!)... but I'll just leave it at those few examples.
I guess when it comes down to it, you have to realize that YOU DO NOT SPEAK FOR THE ENTIRE GAMING WORLD. Neither do I. But for me, each and every individual game I listed is exponentially more interesting and appealing than L.A. Noire, Mass Effect, Portal 2, Super Meat Boy, Assassin's Creed, Duke Nuken Forever and Skyrim put together. And if you ask me, they're all VISUALLY more appealing, too, by leaps and bounds.
It's all a matter of individual taste. Obviously, Japanese games have fallen out of favor with you... but for some of us, they're just as great as they always were. And I maintain that if you look hard enough, you'll find plenty of modern Japanese games to love, just as I'd probably find plenty of modern western games to love if I looked hard enough.
My point in stating this? Japanese games aren't stagnating at all. They're continuing to innovate and improve just as rapidly as they always have. Clearly, they're not innovating and improving in the directions YOU want them to... but that doesn't mean they're not innovating or improving at all.
As a point of comparison, I could just as easily claim that western games are stagnating, since virtually every title being released these days is either an FPS or a squad-based third-person shooter, all with samey art styles (namely, an attempt at realism, which I absolutely HATE in video games -- I play games for escapism, so the less like real life they look, the happier I'll be!). Hell, remember the big joke from this year's E3, that virtually every single game being shown involved shipwrecks or damaged boats in some fashion? And the vast majority of the examples cited were western titles, NOT Japanese.
But I'm not about to say that western games are stagnating, because I know they're not. They're not innovating or improving in any direction I care about, and in fact seem to be innovating in directions I'd really prefer they NOT go (i.e. creative multiplayer, and more of a multiplayer focus, which sucks for someone like me who hates playing video games with other people!)... but that's not stagnation, it's just divergent innovation.
I guess what I'm hoping to achieve with this post is for you to concede that no, Japanese games are NOT stagnating -- you just don't LIKE them anymore. Because from the sounds of it, that's what's happening.
As for Sony... I don't think I'll be able to convince you of their non-evilness, but I would like to make a few points:
- Sony systems are the only ones that are consistently region-free for video games. Even the DS suddenly got region-locked with the advent of the DSi, and the 3DS was released with region-locking from the get-go. Sony, on the other hand, ACTIVELY CHOOSES to make their systems region-free. And that, to me, is a pretty awesome thing to do.
- Did you ever notice how Nintendo systems often get criticized for their lack of third-party support, while Sony systems THRIVE on third-party games? Yeah... there's a good reason for that. That's about all I can really say on the matter... but ultimately, the system that's good for third-party companies is generally good for the customers, since it provides them with more options and more varied titles.
- Regarding the PSN hack, LulzSec wasn't responsible for that AFAIK. Officially, it was a subgroup of Anonymous. As I understand it, LulzSec was founded IN RESPONSE to the PSN hack, to hack other companies "for the lulz." The group that hacked PSN *did* have a vendetta against them for the Geohot incident, and I believe Anonymous even went on record as saying that they were targeting Sony specifically BECAUSE of that incident. So yes, they were determined to get in, and would've gotten in no matter what, I believe.
- Also, Sony's handling of the hack was pretty consistent with typical Japanese business policies, which dictate that you don't contact the customer until you know EXACTLY what happened. The reasoning behind this is that you don't want to scare off your customers unnecessarily (and force them to do something costly and/or horribly inconvenient like, say, canceling their credit cards) by saying "There may be an incident, hunker down!", only to come back later and be like, "Our mistake, it was nothing." If Sony's guilty of anything, it's of being very Japanese in their approach -- which I like, because while the Japanese approach may be slow, it's also VERY THOROUGH. I'm betting that PSN won't get hacked again for a looooong time.
- Oh, and regarding poor Sony customer service? I guess that varies on a person-to-person basis, as I've never had a single bad experience with them.
-Tom
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Post by TheChosen on Jun 28, 2011 3:13:48 GMT -5
Whats with this forum? Its starting to turn into a miserable pile of hatred.
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Post by Weasel on Jun 28, 2011 4:04:44 GMT -5
Whats with this forum? Its starting to turn into a miserable pile of hatred. Yeah, honestly, I really don't get it either. I thought the whole point of this thread was that Konami opted to toss out the original Silent Hill 2 voice actors and replace them? On another note, Hitman: Absolution (or as Rock Paper Shotgun calls it, Hitman: Subtitle) is tossing the original voice actors for 47 and Diana. No word on who's playing 47 now, but Diana is getting replaced with some chick that was on Lost, and really, I don't see the point. It's like when Saturday morning cartoons would randomly replace the voice actor of one of the main characters. The show's never quite the same after that. Or like...Billy West as Zim isn't bad in concept, but it's never going to be quite like Richard Horvitz. |
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Post by Sac (a.k.a Icaras) on Jun 28, 2011 8:18:33 GMT -5
Yea guys? Seems some people are taking this just a bit too seriously and seem to be taking some comments a bit too personally. Remember that your opinion is just that, and that we don't need or want to see comments that attack a sub culture/interests of other forumites. C'mon, we don't expect to see that stuff here, do we?
Anyway, back on subject, and one thought that occurs to me. How do we know Konami even did anything "bad". All we have is one voicer actors say so. For all we know, he could have mis read his contract or started to expect too much cash.
I mean, its not uncommon that an actor will expect too much and be moved on. Just take a look Charlie Sheen!
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Post by alan01987 on Jun 28, 2011 9:52:24 GMT -5
Whats with this forum? Its starting to turn into a miserable pile of hatred. Maybe when somebody makes a positive statement, it seems to breed a bunch of negative responses. |
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Post by wyrdwad on Jun 28, 2011 11:44:34 GMT -5
Sorry to have contributed to the off-topicking of this. I just hate when people hate on Sony and Japanese games, as I'm very much a Sony fanboy AND a connoisseur of Japanese games (both modern and classic). (: Getting back to the topic at hand, I'm guessing the voice-acting was probably changed for legal reasons, as I can really see no other viable explanation. I sincerely doubt Konami was just like, "Heh heh heh! Fans love this voice, so let's perform a little... sociological experiment... and remove it!"  -Tom |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2011 11:59:52 GMT -5
Not to stir things up, but it irks me too that Nintendo always gets a free pass when it comes to criticism.
Back on topic, Namco had to re-draw the cinemas in Splatterhouse 3 (in the version on the 2010 game) because they didn't have the rights for the digitized actors' likenesses. Aren't they doing the same for MK, or in that case is it just because they want higher-res images? This is almost as bad as freaking music rights on DVDs.
Sonny Bono, burn in hell please.
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Post by Malroth on Jun 28, 2011 12:05:28 GMT -5
Has the voice actor for SH2's protagonist done anything else since then? It's hard to tell if Konami offered a bum deal of $8.50 an hour, or if the guy is demanding some outrageous payment because he thinks he's popular.
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Post by Ganelon on Jun 28, 2011 12:25:33 GMT -5
Sorry to have contributed to the off-topicking of this. I just hate when people hate on Sony and Japanese games, as I'm very much a Sony fanboy AND a connoisseur of Japanese games (both modern and classic). (: Are we talking Sony in general or SCEA? I don't necessarily blame Sony for the break-in since they offered everything they could with the PS3–besides removing Linux–by making the console and all relevant games region-free. However, SCEA QA is responsible for the inexcusable decision of preventing games from arriving on our shores. They might be thankful to XSEED now for promoting the PSP's library but back in their glory days, SCEA QA nixed Ys I & II Eternal Story on the PS2 for not being up to their polygonal standards. NEC Interchannel started a US division with the intent to localize this game, got rejected, and died as a result without releasing a game. So you can bet I harbor no love for SCEA and I don't see how any fan of niche or 2D JP games in the US could appreciate them. The worst thing SCEJ ever did was to impose minor censorship in its games, which, although annoying, isn't as big a deal and it's again something that Nintendo did as well. As for UMK3, the first 3D port of it is already available on iOS and even in polygons, the characters resemble the original actors. I wouldn't be surprised if Midway had some locked down clause in the actors' contracts that held all rights. They were already sued for unauthorized use of actor likenesses during MKI&II-hence the character removals and switches in MK3-so it's a safe bet they drafted later contracts very carefully. |
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