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Post by MRSKELETON on Aug 20, 2006 16:11:26 GMT -5
The gamecube released shortly thereafter, and a while after that the DS released. "Help please what the hell are you on how did nintendo kill 2d" I'm not giving statistics. Just look at it, it's something Sony does at the end of consoles. They aren't in the open but a slew of 2d titles have recently been released for the PS2. Let's focus on Nintendo, that's the purpose of this. The gamecube is a weak system as it stands. No third-party support besides from the likes of capcom, but most of all nothing in Nintendo's strong area - A severe lack of 2d titles we're released for the Gamecube.
Then we have Nintendos handheld's. They always have 2d games, megaman, castlevania. If you notice as they progress, Like any system they get better graphics. When the DS was released it was mainly 2d focused, Titles like Castlevania, Megaman battle network and now we're seeing the second round of "killer apps" (PoR, ZX) Leaving it in the devlopers hands, as the DS progresses along we're also seeing more developers focus more on 3d games. There are atleast twenty coming out in the next few months, With more probably coming too with the usual "Suddenly, this releases right now!" From konami and SquarEnix.
It's apparent now isn't it. Nintendo likes 2d, Then why weren't there 2d games for the Gamecube, And if this is true why haven't we seen any 2d games for the Wii revealed? Additionally, you are going to see 2d losing power on the ds, with developers shifting towards 3d. Sony is doing it, They've released a bunch of 2d titles (The last blade, Rockman Collection) And even microsoft has the Live Arcade. Next time you shift attention away from beloved nintendo perhaps you should look closer?
C+C On the article please before i post it on a few websites and get my ass kicked by nintendo fans.
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Post by jameseightbitstar on Aug 21, 2006 4:11:03 GMT -5
David killed the 2D Giant by slinging a rock into its forehead.
Actually, to be honest I don't really understand your post.
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Post by ReyVGM on Aug 21, 2006 5:14:28 GMT -5
"The gamecube is a weak system as it stands. No third-party support besides from the likes of capcom"
Actually, the GC had way more 3rd party support than the N64 ever did and yet the GC is considered worse.
"Nintendo likes 2d, Then why weren't there 2d games for the Gamecube"
For the same reason there weren't many 2D games on the N64. Because: A) Third parties didn't bother making or porting them and B) because Nintendo doesn't really do 2D games on big consoles anymore. And this isn't Nintendo only, Capcom changed MMX to 3D and so did Konami with Castlevanias when it came to the big consoles. There aren't many 2D games coming on out any big console anyways unless you count fighters and japanese games that usually stay over there.
And your point doesn't make sense either 'cause there are 2D games on the GC. What do you call Alien Hominid, SNK vs Capcom 2, Mega man X collection, Mega man collection, Sonic collection, wario ware, zelda four swords and plenty others?
And are you even talking about 2D SPRITE based games or 2D view games?
"They aren't in the open but a slew of 2d titles have recently been released for the PS2."
Sony didn't make those, you can't blame Nintendo for 3rd parties not releasing 2D games.
"And if this is true why haven't we seen any 2d games for the Wii revealed?"
SNK announced Metal Slug collection for the Wii already and let's not get started on the whole virtual console thing.
"Additionally, you are going to see 2d losing power on the ds, with developers shifting towards 3d."
That's not Nintendo's fault, its the industry's fault. And nintendo has released plenty of 2D games on the DS, more than usual considering the trend these days is to make everything 3D.
"Sony is doing it, They've released a bunch of 2d titles (The last blade, Rockman Collection) And even microsoft has the Live Arcade."
Again, sony didn't make those. Rockman collection is also on the GC. Plus the virtual console is gonna kick Live Arcade's ass.
"Actually, to be honest I don't really understand your post. "
I really didn't understand it either. I don't really see what mazingsaga is trying to achieve with this post.
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Post by dartagnan1803 on Aug 21, 2006 6:16:58 GMT -5
Capcom vs SNK evo 2 (or something along those lines) was released for the cube. we also got a 2.5D megaman battlenetwork title along with the MM aniversary collection, and the Sonic Mega Collection.
then we have Ikaruga and Chaos Field.
you can't neccessarily say there were no 2D titles for the cube. even when you don't count the compilations, there's still. . .like. . .4 titles. yeah, there's very little 2D from nintendo nowadays, but it's still there
I'm not sure what dialouge path your post is following either.
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Post by YourAverageJoe on Aug 21, 2006 15:37:32 GMT -5
I agree with the Museum dude. Also, why does the top of your post imply there was more?
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Post by Gilder on Aug 21, 2006 17:08:43 GMT -5
It's apparent now isn't it. Nintendo likes 2d, Then why weren't there 2d games for the Gamecube, And if this is true why haven't we seen any 2d games for the Wii revealed? What about Super Smash Brothers Brawl for the Wii? Although graphcially in 3D, I'm pretty sure the game will be purely 2D based fighting. And it's doubtful that Wario Ware: Smooth Moves will incorporate anything 3D in their minigames. I'm going to have to agree with everyone about the not understanding it. What exactly are you implying? Are you talking stricly 2D games (2D graphics and all) or are you including 2D game mechanics with 3D graphics? If you're including the latter, then there are a few games Nintendo released that are like that (Super Smash Brothers Melee, Donkey Kong Jungle Beat, and possibly the upcoming Super Paper Mario) and from other companies (Viewtiful Joe, Ikaruga, etc.). Let's not forget about the fact that the Gamecube has a Gameboy Player that can play all GBA games (and most of them are 2D).
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Post by Discoalucard on Aug 21, 2006 22:33:33 GMT -5
I've always been of the opinion that Super Mario 64 played an instrumental role in the downfall of 2D gaming. This is kind of why I don't like the game.
Beyond that, ???
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Post by Malroth on Aug 21, 2006 22:47:11 GMT -5
Who killed 2D? The mainstream gamers, thats who. Most mainstream gamers want to see flashier graphics, which automatically rules out 2D.
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Post by Neo Rasa on Aug 21, 2006 23:32:58 GMT -5
The industry killed it. At the time making a texture mapped 3D model and then dumping it into an engine was far less expensive than animating sprites for it that would look good. This disparity in cost is still true now (which is why SNK and Sammy basically produce one new character sprite every year for the past several years).
A vicious cycle began from that since all of the industry trades, the consumer level game magazines, etc. all harkened 3D graphics as being the be all end all advancement of the artform. So people demanded it since they were told it was the new hotness. It was, but it got to the point where 2D is considered "old" regardless of quality unless it's on a "small" system like the DS/etc.
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recap
Full Member
Posts: 134
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Post by recap on Aug 22, 2006 4:43:41 GMT -5
I've always been of the opinion that Super Mario 64 played an instrumental role in the downfall of 2D gaming. This is kind of why I don't like the game. My thoughts, exactly. The true evilness here is Nintendo, not Sony (which produced lots of PS One 2D games, by the way). It's time for the people to realize. Somebody mentioned the casual market. That's Nintendo. Since the Famicom era. Nintendo doesn't like 2D graphics much, I believe. Otherwise, it wouldn't be making them for 2'' screens.
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Post by shido on Aug 22, 2006 9:32:07 GMT -5
Nobody has killed the 2D it's like asking who killed the silent movies/B&W movies... The answer is nobody, it's evolution
NEWSFLASH for everyone: everything you can do in 2D you can do in 3D as well (but not the opposite of course). So with all my love to nostalgia and old consoles, it's only common logic to advance to 3D.
Recap you made me laugh. After reading your pathetic post, the first picture that came to my mind is Nintendo as some evil warlock making a scheme to destroy the pure and innocent 2D.
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recap
Full Member
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Post by recap on Aug 22, 2006 12:35:52 GMT -5
Recap you made me laugh. After reading your pathetic post, the first picture that came to my mind is Nintendo as some evil warlock making a scheme to destroy the pure and innocent 2D. Yeah, for someone who believes that 3D art is the "evolution" of 2D, I suppose that reading a bit between the lines is a bit too much. "Pathetic", indeed.
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Post by YourAverageJoe on Aug 22, 2006 12:45:54 GMT -5
When you actually think about it, 3D graphics can do all that 2D can and more. Example? Developers can make 2D platformers with 3D graphics quite easily, like Klonoa. But you can't really expect full 3D movement from 2D graphics as it's exactly that, 2D.
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Post by shido on Aug 22, 2006 12:59:14 GMT -5
Recap you made me laugh. After reading your pathetic post, the first picture that came to my mind is Nintendo as some evil warlock making a scheme to destroy the pure and innocent 2D. Yeah, for someone who believes that 3D art is the "evolution" of 2D, I suppose that reading a bit between the lines is a bit too much. "Pathetic", indeed. Art? Who's talking about art? I'm talking about pure gameplay (and needles to say there are a lot of 3D games with 2D art). And yeah I can read between the lines. But to say that "Nintendo doesn't like 2D" because they evolve to 3D with the rest of the market after the 3D revolution in gaming (which actually Sega is most responsible for) is as childish as what I describe.
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Post by Neo Rasa on Aug 22, 2006 13:03:30 GMT -5
My thoughts, exactly. The true evilness here is Nintendo, not Sony (which produced lots of PS One 2D games, by the way). I have to disagree with this. I'm speaking of the western market specifically and SCEA's (and further the hype from game journalism after they started their marketing) stance on it. SCEI made Alundra but SCEA sure as hell didn't want to bring it to the US. I can think of very few 2D games developed internally be Sony, and I can't think of ANY that Sony itself published in the US offhand. The only reason we see so many 2D games for the handheld systems is because it's almost impossible for a 2D game to make money today due to how much it costs to do the sprite work/etc. SNK is the only developer in the entire industry that has successfully (and BARELY at that) pulled this off over a long amount of time. Also as Shido pointed out, if we're going to try to point fingers at a specific company, it's Sega that killed 2D, bar none.
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