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Post by The Great Klaid on Sept 1, 2014 11:22:39 GMT -5
The Dreamcast is able to use a modified version of Windows CE, but the Dreamcast is a bit unusual in that it doesn't actually have a built-in OS. The game discs themselves contain the OS instead. As a result, there are a few Dreamcast games that use the modified Windows CE OS, but most games use Sega's OS. The OG Xbox uses a modified version of Windows 2000 as an OS, I think. So yeah, that collaboration probably had a strong influence on both the Dreamcast-like design of the Xbox and the software support Sega gave the console. That all sounds right, and it may explain why DC games were so easy to pirate. And Grandia II and Skies of Arcadia are enough for the Dreamcast to be the best Sega console. If it weren't for the fact that I could do a list like that for the Genesis that's a hell of a lot longer. I never played the Saturn, but that's going to run me hundreds of dollars nowadays...are Saturn discs easy to burn?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2014 11:28:10 GMT -5
I never played the Saturn, but that's going to run me hundreds of dollars nowadays...are Saturn discs easy to burn? No. The Saturn checks for a security ring found on legit discs that is impossible to burn, and it's a pain in the ass to get it to bypass this check.
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Post by r0ck3rz on Sept 1, 2014 12:31:34 GMT -5
That's one of the few games I've only tried briefly and I haven't played the sequels. Obsolete in that you prefer the sequels' mechanics and such or in that you get all the mechanics, art etc. of the prequels plus more in them? The latter. About the only thing you don't get moving forward is some of the wrestlers that have appeared in previous games.
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Post by Colonel Kurtz on Sept 1, 2014 12:38:41 GMT -5
The edges of the Dreamcast's d-pad were able to pierce skin, as demonstrates by many a thumbs. Virtua Tennis 1 & 2... My thumbs never were in such a bad state. The D PAD had sharp edges allright. But I have no real problem with that Dreamcast pad honestly.
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Post by loempiavreter on Sept 1, 2014 19:21:16 GMT -5
Sega Saturn or Sega Megadrive. Dreamcast was crunk, but the (exclusive) games need to be better, megadrive and saturn still have better exclusives/superior versions left. People saying saturn library being redudant because of MAME need to look harder or you'll miss gems like Cyber Doll, Hissatsu!, Hansha de Spark!, Steamgear Mash, Tryrush Deppy etc. etc.
But I'd give it in for Sega Saturn since the gamepad (japanese) is the best ever created.
I have kept a list which games I like, from the whole library (they are exclusive to the system, or the superior version), and it ends like this, sure it's quantity but Saturn still wins.
30: Mastersystem 13: Game Gear 64: Megadrive 18: Sega Mega CD 02: Sega 32x 69: Saturn 42: Dreamcast
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Post by Colonel Kurtz on Sept 2, 2014 5:18:07 GMT -5
I am a bit baffled by the fact that so many say that MAME ruined the Saturn's appeal, which is a fair point to make. But the emulation means for Genesis are complete and comprehensive, so... Does everyone - at least a real minority - play Genesis emulated?
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Post by Feynman on Sept 2, 2014 5:55:41 GMT -5
I think emulation really shouldn't enter the equation, because what a console had to offer when it was contemporary is important. You can't (well you can, but you shouldn't) remove historical context from a console.
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Post by Colonel Kurtz on Sept 2, 2014 6:04:09 GMT -5
I second that. After all, this is what being a retro gamer is largely about. If you are just vaguely interested in playing Shinobi 3, then don't buy retro, buy a mega drive collection and you'll be pleased; but that won't make you a retro gamer.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2014 6:08:49 GMT -5
I think emulation really shouldn't enter the equation, because what a console had to offer when it was contemporary is important. You can't (well you can, but you shouldn't) remove historical context from a console. Definitely. Games don't exist in a void where they're only as relevant as whatever modern standards might be. I've honestly wanted to teach a gaming history college course for a long time now.
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Post by ommadawnyawn2 on Sept 2, 2014 7:17:16 GMT -5
I think the thread question can be interpreted as what you would consider holding up the best with the options available today. Also I mostly emulate retro games (won't go into that but it sure has helped me enjoy and/or get into old RPGs and very hard arcade-style games thanks to fast forward and save states) but it doesn't make me unable to put them into proper context.
Anyway, already disagreed with the idea of MAME making the Saturn library mostly obsolete since tons of games have extra content or positive changes. With the older machines (MD, SMS) their different limitations affecting the ports can also be endearing in themselves.
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Post by alphex on Sept 2, 2014 8:04:46 GMT -5
I am a bit baffled by the fact that so many say that MAME ruined the Saturn's appeal, which is a fair point to make. But the emulation means for Genesis are complete and comprehensive, so... Does everyone - at least a real minority - play Genesis emulated? I think the point is that nowadays, the Saturn versions are less appealing, since the superior arcade originals can be easily played. If you emulate a Genesis game, you still play the Genesis version. Which means the game you're playing is a Genesis game. If you play the original arcade release of Virtua Fighter 2, you don't play a Saturn game.
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Post by PooshhMao on Sept 2, 2014 8:18:26 GMT -5
I stand corrected on the 'MAME made the Saturn obsolete' opinion I guess. There's a bunch of Japanese exclusives on that platform that I intended to do some research on. My primary source of news were still mostly magazines at that time and they focused strongly on the typical CPS2 and shmup ports, with the odd mention of 'hey guys look what just got released in Japan, a teen idol photography sim!'
But the difficulty in emulating it (I don't have a machine powerful enough to run it at any kind of acceptable speed) also acts as a barrier in exploring what gems I might have missed. I never had an original PSOne and my opinion of that system improved tenfold once I got access to it's entire library.
And since this thread's topic might as well be 'let's talk about the merits and quirks of Sega consoles' and nobody mentioned the Game Gear so far, I'm just gonna throw in that for a very, very long time, it had the best platform-exclusive shmup on any handheld (not counting the PC Engine or Sega Nomad). Not even any of the decade-later Wonder Swan, Neo-Geo Pocket or Game Boy Advance's shmups can hold a candle to GG Aleste II I think.
That title alone was worth owning a Game Gear for. I didn't have one myself but a close friend did, and I played it often. It definately wasn't portable enough (or battery friendly) to casually take it with you when going outside like the Game Boy was, but as long as you didn't mind being tethered to the wall outlet, it was a great 'crash-on-the-couch-for-the-afternoon' type handheld.
The stereo sound output helped reduce the harshness of the PSG sound and helped making it more listenable, and the blurry, ghosty, light saturated (they didn't get backlighting right yet) screen grew on you in a strange way.
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Post by The Great Klaid on Sept 2, 2014 8:45:41 GMT -5
I think emulation really shouldn't enter the equation, because what a console had to offer when it was contemporary is important. You can't (well you can, but you shouldn't) remove historical context from a console. I'm not sure if I follow your logic. Just because I emulate a game doesn't mean I don't understand the context. As well as the inverse being true. Also, I've entertained the notion of teaching a class myself. I always love explaining things like that to my siblings. I once explained programming using Gen 1 Pokemon to them.
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Post by r0ck3rz on Sept 2, 2014 8:57:14 GMT -5
It doesn't even have to be M.A.M.E., just any kind of compilation with the actual arcade version released within the last couple of generations.
As for Saturn, SSF was pretty damn good last I tried, and I haven't touched emulation of a disc console in quite a while, so I don't know how far it's come along by now. If you have an older/weaker computer, then yeah, it wouldn't be worth trying, but otherwise it should play a good number of the game you're willing to throw at it.
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Post by AfroRyan on Sept 3, 2014 5:17:00 GMT -5
It doesn't even have to be M.A.M.E., just any kind of compilation with the actual arcade version released within the last couple of generations. As for Saturn, SSF was pretty damn good last I tried, and I haven't touched emulation of a disc console in quite a while, so I don't know how far it's come along by now. If you have an older/weaker computer, then yeah, it wouldn't be worth trying, but otherwise it should play a good number of the game you're willing to throw at it. Yeah, SSF is great now, and Yabuse isn't too bad either. That said, a dual core processor is basically required to run them well. But I am happy to see that the VAST majority of Saturn games can be properly played via emulation now. I never thought we'd see Panzer Dragoon Saga emulated past the title screen, but you can play it in its entirety now, which is just awesome. Gives me hope that Sega will be inspired by that and rerelease it themselves.
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