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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2014 5:42:06 GMT -5
The DC controller was definitely an abomination. That d-pad was particularly egregious. I don't think Sonic is really the main reason people remember the system so favorably, though.
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Post by Feynman on Sept 1, 2014 6:00:24 GMT -5
A lot of the Dreamcast controller's issues stem from the VMU. Yeah, the VMU was innovative and all, but it was basically useless and had no real functionality other than minor gimmicks, and to enjoy said minor gimmicks you had to keep the VMU charged, which was a pain because those things devoured batteries like crazy, and on top of that they had to be plugged into the aforementioned Dreamcast controller, making the controller needlessly large and bulky. The Saturn 3D pad (the controller that the Dreamcast's is based on) was a bit large but still pretty good, then you get to the Dreamcast and the goddamn controller is as big as the console is.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2014 6:52:05 GMT -5
The original Xbox controller appears to have been a VMU-less clone of the DC controller, at least in basic shape, which honestly makes zero sense. Also, while the d-pad was easily the worst feature of the DC controller, the face buttons were also sharp and stiff. Not exactly great qualities for fast response times.
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Post by alphex on Sept 1, 2014 7:11:28 GMT -5
Truth be told, there's precious little on the Master System that's worth playing in 2014 and doesn't have a superior version elsewhere. I love the MS version of Sonic 1.
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Post by Feynman on Sept 1, 2014 7:18:59 GMT -5
Someone at Microsoft was a either a big fan of Sega or wanted to take advantage of the gap Sega's departure left in the console space (or both), because the OG Xbox is very much a spiritual successor to the Dreamcast. Everything from the controller design to the push for network connectivity is very clearly inspired by the Dreamcast.
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Post by AfroRyan on Sept 1, 2014 7:19:13 GMT -5
For me personally, it isn't just the Genesis, but the Nomad. I had a Nomad that my mom bought second hand from some kid's parent who cried about the battery life. But I always had an adaptor so I'd just sit near an outlet. It was such an amazing time to play real console games on a handheld. It even supported multiplayer by plugging in a second controller. For me, that was the most magical Sega system.
The first impression I got from the Sega CD and Saturn were both stand outs, too. Popful Mail on the Sega CD floored me. Panzer Dragoon made me question everyone else's sanity for disliking the Saturn.
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Post by r0ck3rz on Sept 1, 2014 7:56:47 GMT -5
Truth be told, there's precious little on the Master System that's worth playing in 2014 and doesn't have a superior version elsewhere. Actually, there's a lot of the same dichotomy between the Genesis and Master System/Game Gear as there is between the Genesis and SNES. Same name, different game. Before you even think of using the Game Gear to compare, yeah the graphics will look a little better, but it loses resolution. Funny enough, same exact difference between the 2 major 16-bit consoles.
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Post by alphex on Sept 1, 2014 8:08:49 GMT -5
Someone at Microsoft was a either a big fan of Sega or wanted to take advantage of the gap Sega's departure left in the console space (or both), because the OG Xbox is very much a spiritual successor to the Dreamcast. Everything from the controller design to the push for network connectivity is very clearly inspired by the Dreamcast. The Dreamcast was able to run some console-specific Windows version, wasn't it? Which is also how some of the Dreamcast games were very quickly ported, if I remember correctly. There was already some MS-Sega-cooperation going on during the Dreamcast era, so I guess Microsoft just applied whatever knowledge they already had.
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Post by Feynman on Sept 1, 2014 8:30:59 GMT -5
The Dreamcast is able to use a modified version of Windows CE, but the Dreamcast is a bit unusual in that it doesn't actually have a built-in OS. The game discs themselves contain the OS instead. As a result, there are a few Dreamcast games that use the modified Windows CE OS, but most games use Sega's OS.
The OG Xbox uses a modified version of Windows 2000 as an OS, I think.
So yeah, that collaboration probably had a strong influence on both the Dreamcast-like design of the Xbox and the software support Sega gave the console.
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Post by ommadawnyawn2 on Sept 1, 2014 9:19:50 GMT -5
Regarding SMS sound, there's a PSG enhancer for the Dega emulator and you can switch to FM sound for quite a few games (admittedly the primitive FM sfx are more grating at times but still).
I disagree with the Saturn being mostly redundant even with MAME. There are plenty of worthwhile exclusives/exclusive arcade ports.
2nd Arukotowa Sando-R (Puzzle & Action series) Albert Odyssey Assault Suit Leynos 2 Astal Batsugun (ARC Port) - Includes both “regular” and “Special” versions from the arcades – the latter gives you a smaller hitbox, stronger bombs, and several truncated (and tricky) “loops” to fight through after finishing the initial five stages. It also has an optional arranged soundtrack as well as the complete elimination of the arcade game’s slowdown, which can make the loops in Special even tougher, although it also adds in a very fast auto-fire button. /Racketboy, Segagaga Battle Garegga (ARC Port) - Additional modes, tons of options (make bullets more noticeable, code-free hidden character selection, various rapid fire settings, and a pair of unlockable super plays) Blast Wind Burning Rangers Bulk Slash Choro Q Park (Racing) Cotton 2 (ARC Port) – Saturn Mode with some rearranged enemy patterns and graphics (background colours), and a few additional options (some requiring unlocking) /Racketboy Cotton Boomerang (ARC Port) – Art gallery, difficulty options Crows: The Battle Action (Beat 'em up) Daytona USA CCE – The JP version supposedly has tighter controls Digital Pinball: Last Gladiators Ver.9.7, Digital Pinball: NECRONOMICON (JP) Dragon Force Dragon Force II – Fan translation in progress FEDA Remake! The Emblem of Justice (SNES remake, SRPG) Fire Pro Wrestling S: 6 Men Scramble, Fire Pro Gaiden: Blazing Tornado Game Tengoku/Game Paradise (ARC Port) – Score attack, Tate mode, tons of options; Saturn mode optimized for horizontal “yoko” screens, crammed to capacity with a new playable character, several additional stages, cutscenes between levels, and tons of voice acting Goiken Muyou Anarchy in the NIPPON (3D Fighting) Groove On Fight (Power Instinct 3 ARC) – Slightly fewer animations; + Difficulty, time and ‘shortcut’ options GunGriffon, GunGriffon II Gussun Oyoyo S - Revamped OST Hyper Duel (ARC Port) - Saturn mode (better gfx/sound and controls), difficulty options Iron Storm (also on PC) Keio Flying Squadron 2 Keriotosse! (Multiplayer Action) Kidou Senshi Gundam (Shoot 'em up) Kyukyoku Tiger II Plus (ARC Port) + Arrange mode (new intro, soundtrack, mission briefings, higher difficulty), pad rotation mode, Saturn mode Legend of Oasis/The Story of Thor 2 Lunacy/Torico Magic Knight Rayearth Mobile Suit Gundam Side Story Vol. 1-3 (FPS/Mech) Nanatsu Kaze no Shima Monogatari (JP Platform/Adventure) Ninpen Manmaru (3D Platform/Puzzle game) Night Warriors: DarkStalkers' Revenge/Vampire Hunter (ARC Port, Also on PS2) + Adds an Appendix mode (customize colors, backgrounds and music between this and the prequel), -/+ Different backgrounds from the arcade version Ninku: Tsuyokina Yatsura No Daigekitotsu! (2D Fighting) Panzer Dragoon Zwei, Panzer Dragoon Saga Psychic Killer Taromaru Purikura Daisakusen (ARC Port) – Additional FMV intro, difficulty options Quo Vadis 2 (JP RTS Sim/Anime) Saturn Bomberman Saturn Bomberman Fight! Savaki (3D Fighting) Shippu Mahou Daisakusen: Kingdom Grandprix (ARC Port) – Shooting only mode (unlockable) Sengoku Blade/Tengai (ARC Port) – New character, art gallery disc Sea Bass Fishing 2 - The JP version is easy to play even if you don't speak the language as all the important stuff is in English Segata Sanshirou Shinkenyugi (Action/Mini-games/Comedy) Shinobi Legions Shining the Holy Ark Shining Force III: Scenario 1, Shining Force III: Scenario 2, Shining Force III: Scenario 3 Sonic Jam – Sonic World (a 3D hub with art/music gallery etc.). OTOH it has minor framedrop issues? Stellar Assault SS Three Dirty Dwarfs (also on PC) Vatlva (Car Combat) Virtua Cop (ARC Port, Also on PC) Wachenröder (SRPG) Wing Arms World Advanced Daisenryaku Sakusen File (War sim, Iron Storm 'sequel') Zero Divide: The Final Conflict (3D Fighting, third game in the series)
The list is almost doubled when including the superior and/or notable versions of multiplat games.
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Post by r0ck3rz on Sept 1, 2014 10:23:03 GMT -5
^The problem with listing Fire Pro is that it's all obsolete if you have access to the latest. In this case, still Returns on the PS2. Even at that, D on the Dreamcast, or G on the PS1 would also render S obsolete.
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Post by ommadawnyawn2 on Sept 1, 2014 10:27:12 GMT -5
That's one of the few games I've only tried briefly and I haven't played the sequels. Obsolete in that you prefer the sequels' mechanics and such or in that you get all the mechanics, art etc. of the prequels plus more in them?
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Post by Colonel Kurtz on Sept 1, 2014 10:32:25 GMT -5
The DC controller was definitely an abomination. That d-pad was particularly egregious. I don't think Sonic is really the main reason people remember the system so favorably, though. I'd say the worst aspect of the Dreamcast pad was the triggers, not because they were badly implemented, but because those jackasses made them incredibly easy to break. The majority of used Dreamcast pads have busted triggers, all because of a little, brittle bit of plastic inside that breaks too easily. I never broke one myself. I loved my Dreamcast too much. And the pada were expensive.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2014 11:18:02 GMT -5
I think the Dreamcast D-pad was awesomely smooth, and have no major gripes with the controller. I don't know why they ditched the Saturn's two extra face buttons, though, there are far more DC games than Saturn games that could have benefited from them. VMUs were a cool idea, but were too limited for most developers to bother trying to take advantage of them, and the pad shouldn't have been completely designed around accommodating them.
If the system had survived to seriously compete with the PS2, Sega would have eventually needed to release a dual analog controller. It was pretty awesome that the DC supported mouse + keyboard controls for games like Quake III, though. The ONLY recent console game I know of that does is Counter-Strike Global Offensive for PS3.
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Post by alphex on Sept 1, 2014 11:21:37 GMT -5
The edges of the Dreamcast's d-pad were able to pierce skin, as demonstrates by many a thumbs.
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