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Post by PooshhMao on Sept 3, 2014 7:02:43 GMT -5
I think emulation really shouldn't enter the equation, because what a console had to offer when it was contemporary is important. You can't (well you can, but you shouldn't) remove historical context from a console. Not sure I agree totally with this. Contemporary, sure - that's why I went with the Saturn instead of the much more popular PSOne, it had more and better ports of the games I liked (conveniently ignoring that my all-time favourite shmup was a launch title for the other platform). For me, that was the system's primary appeal. So when thinking back about the Saturn, I simply can't ignore MAME. I guess my love for the system reached a turning point when I ordered Metal Slug on import, which wasn't cheap and took about two weeks to arrive. I loved it at first, but about a week later, the Neo-Geo rom was released alongside a NeoRageX build that supported it. Compared side by side, I noticed the Saturn version actually missed out on a lot of the finer details, despite appearing accurate to the untrained eye (at least they knew what animation to cut so it wasn't apparent). So how's a hardcore gamer to feel? This is what really influences my opinion of the Saturn now. Ironically, less accurate ports of contemporary arcade games on older machines are more rewarding to play now because they usually look and sound (and sometimes even play) different enough from the arcade original to warrant playing them. The NES is a great example - it had it's fair share of arcade ports, but because of the tech discrepancy, were usually re-developed from the ground up to fit the capabilities of the machine, resulting in some games that were superior to the source material. Almost nobody prefers arcade Contra to NES Contra, amirite? Another good example is Street Fighter Alpha 2. The Saturn version is almost perfect (as usual), only suffering low quality sampled speech if you're playing with two different characters. The SNES port isn't nearly as accurate, featuring smaller, redrawn graphics to fit the SNES's screen resolution and tiny (in relation) storage space. Ironically, this makes playing the SNES version more interesting now.
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Post by The Great Klaid on Sept 3, 2014 7:29:38 GMT -5
I'm not sure if I agree. Contra on NES is remembered over the arcade, because of nostalgia. Same reason a lot of people refrence Metal Gear on NES over the MSX version. And preferring a messed up version of Street Fighter is just sick. You should go to internet jail for that. I hope they throw away the key...
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Post by Bobinator on Sept 3, 2014 8:25:38 GMT -5
What most people don't mention or know about SFA2 on the SNES is that they took out all the basic moves that come out when you're next to your opponent. I've never been able to play that particular port again, because that just feels so... weird.
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Post by Colonel Kurtz on Sept 3, 2014 9:16:49 GMT -5
Talking about the aesthetics of the machine themselves, the most daring, the most avant-garde, the most awesomest design is this one by very far. So unique. Looks like nothing else, and seems so powerful! Charismatic design much. ... I love the Dreamcast, but it played it much more safe. The spiral and power on triangle are iconic, and the off-white color is elegant. But so less awesome than the md... Controller-wise, I guess it's the japanese Saturn pad. It is actually a perfect pad. No cramp ever.
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Post by PooshhMao on Sept 3, 2014 9:41:19 GMT -5
I'm not sure if I agree. Contra on NES is remembered over the arcade, because of nostalgia. Same reason a lot of people refrence Metal Gear on NES over the MSX version. And preferring a messed up version of Street Fighter is just sick. You should go to internet jail for that. I hope they throw away the key... That's not what I said. Of course the Saturn version is better (read: closer) than the SNES version. That's the thing; it's so close I might as well fire up MAME and have a 100% accurate experience (on top of a whole lot of other benefits emulation offers). Meanwhile the SNES most definitely is not a pixel-accurate port, and that's what makes it more interesting. Technically, it features all new content (redrawn graphics to fit the SNES's resolution) and as such, in my view, compliments the arcade game instead of competing with it. (Not sure that's the right word, but you get the point right?) And next time you disagree, try to express it a bit more constructively than 'I hope you die in jail'. Grow the fuck up.
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Post by alphex on Sept 3, 2014 9:53:12 GMT -5
What most people don't mention or know about SFA2 on the SNES is that they took out all the basic moves that come out when you're next to your opponent. I've never been able to play that particular port again, because that just feels so... weird. The Alpha series didn't have the distinction between close and far attacks until SFA3, and even there, only in V and X-ISM.
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Post by The Great Klaid on Sept 3, 2014 9:56:12 GMT -5
I'm not sure if I agree. Contra on NES is remembered over the arcade, because of nostalgia. Same reason a lot of people refrence Metal Gear on NES over the MSX version. And preferring a messed up version of Street Fighter is just sick. You should go to internet jail for that. I hope they throw away the key... That's not what I said. Of course the Saturn version is better (read: closer) than the SNES version. That's the thing; it's so close I might as well fire up MAME and have a 100% accurate experience (on top of a whole lot of other benefits emulation offers). Meanwhile the SNES most definitely is not a pixel-accurate port, and that's what makes it more interesting. Technically, it features all new content (redrawn graphics to fit the SNES's resolution) and as such, in my view, compliments the arcade game instead of competing with it. (Not sure that's the right word, but you get the point right?) And next time you disagree, try to express it a bit more constructively than 'I hope you die in jail'. Grow the fuck up. I was being silly with that. Hence internet jail. Settle, the hell down.
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Post by PooshhMao on Sept 3, 2014 10:22:46 GMT -5
Talking about the aesthetics of the machine themselves, the most daring, the most avant-garde, the most awesomest design is this one by very far. So unique. Looks like nothing else, and seems so powerful! Charismatic design much. ... I love the Dreamcast, but it played it much more safe. The spiral and power on triangle are iconic, and the off-white color is elegant. But so less awesome than the md... Controller-wise, I guess it's the japanese Saturn pad. It is actually a perfect pad. No cramp ever. It's a pretty machine for sure, but when you take efficiency into account, the PC Engine trumps all. It's less than half the size of a Mega Drive, but still offers comparable performance. That's a pretty interesting aspect of video game marketing. In Japan, small, compact and efficient was prized, where in the West, they feared that such a small machine wouldn't be taken seriously and decided to bloat it with over twice as much plastic. Same goes for the Lynx, which is much larger than it needed to be.
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Post by Allie on Sept 3, 2014 17:59:49 GMT -5
I think emulation really shouldn't enter the equation, because what a console had to offer when it was contemporary is important. You can't (well you can, but you shouldn't) remove historical context from a console. Not sure I agree totally with this. Contemporary, sure - that's why I went with the Saturn instead of the much more popular PSOne, it had more and better ports of the games I liked (conveniently ignoring that my all-time favourite shmup was a launch title for the other platform). For me, that was the system's primary appeal. So when thinking back about the Saturn, I simply can't ignore MAME. I guess my love for the system reached a turning point when I ordered Metal Slug on import, which wasn't cheap and took about two weeks to arrive. I loved it at first, but about a week later, the Neo-Geo rom was released alongside a NeoRageX build that supported it. Compared side by side, I noticed the Saturn version actually missed out on a lot of the finer details, despite appearing accurate to the untrained eye (at least they knew what animation to cut so it wasn't apparent). So how's a hardcore gamer to feel? This is what really influences my opinion of the Saturn now. Ironically, less accurate ports of contemporary arcade games on older machines are more rewarding to play now because they usually look and sound (and sometimes even play) different enough from the arcade original to warrant playing them. The NES is a great example - it had it's fair share of arcade ports, but because of the tech discrepancy, were usually re-developed from the ground up to fit the capabilities of the machine, resulting in some games that were superior to the source material. Almost nobody prefers arcade Contra to NES Contra, amirite? Another good example is Street Fighter Alpha 2. The Saturn version is almost perfect (as usual), only suffering low quality sampled speech if you're playing with two different characters. The SNES port isn't nearly as accurate, featuring smaller, redrawn graphics to fit the SNES's screen resolution and tiny (in relation) storage space. Ironically, this makes playing the SNES version more interesting now. The biggest blow against the PS1 is that Sony never allowed it to leave the public consciousness. Its mystique has never had a chance to grow the way the Saturn's has, because nobody has really spent enough time away from the most well-known parts of its library. The PS1 didn't get defined by its obscure cult games because we've had FF7, Crash Bandicoot, Tomb Raider, Gran Turismo, Symphony of the Night, Mega Man X4, released over and over again. Its reputation didn't get built on Japan-only titles like Tear Ring Saga, or Asuka 120% FINAL, or Kowloon's Gate, or Little Ralph, or Addie no Okourimono or what have you. Meanwhile, with the exception of titles like Dragon Force or NiGHTS, the Saturn's reputation is almost EXCLUSIVELY built on Japan-only titles like Radiant Silvergun (until the 360 port), and ESPECIALLY ones with a huge language barrier, like Sakura Wars, and a bunch of other RPGs and Visual Novels that I couldn't be able to name. And let's not underestimate how big a deal the Saturn port of X-Men vs. Street Fighter was at the time of its release. It was a big enough deal that even retail game stores in the middle of dustbowl nowhere started stocking import Saturn games and bypass carts to boot them with. Also : I'm assuming the PS1 shooter in question you mentioned earlier would be Philosoma?
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Post by Terrifying on Sept 4, 2014 1:25:09 GMT -5
Talking about the aesthetics of the machine themselves, the most daring, the most avant-garde, the most awesomest design is this one by very far. So unique. Looks like nothing else, and seems so powerful! Charismatic design much. ... I love the Dreamcast, but it played it much more safe. The spiral and power on triangle are iconic, and the off-white color is elegant. But so less awesome than the md... Controller-wise, I guess it's the japanese Saturn pad. It is actually a perfect pad. No cramp ever. Yeah, the Japanese Mega Drive looks so slick. I never liked the design for the European original Mega Drive. :/ Mega Drive / Genesis 2 is also quite nice in my opinion, as were the six-button pads. As for the Saturn; I like the Japanese Grey and White editions.
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Post by PooshhMao on Sept 4, 2014 2:42:54 GMT -5
And let's not underestimate how big a deal the Saturn port of X-Men vs. Street Fighter was at the time of its release. It was a big enough deal that even retail game stores in the middle of dustbowl nowhere started stocking import Saturn games and bypass carts to boot them with. Also : I'm assuming the PS1 shooter in question you mentioned earlier would be Philosoma? I know, I got that too. My Saturn wasn't modded yet but I had a 1st gen Action Replay (the one without additional RAM) which allowed me to boot imports (and play them at 50Hz ) so I had learned to boot the Saturn with it, and the split second the screen went black I had to yank the AR out and jam the 4MB ram cart in. The game ran, but slowly and glitchy. I had it modded and it ran perfectly from then on. Truly awesome port, but I recall that in the busiest of moments there was some sprite flicker. The shmup on PS1 I was talking about was The Raiden Project, which had Raiden II on it. Eh, I had Galactic Attack.
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Post by Sac (a.k.a Icaras) on Sept 4, 2014 7:13:24 GMT -5
I'm temped to go with the Dreamcast...but my Dreamcast shit itself yet my Megadrive still works.
So for me, it's the Megadrive (Plus the Megadrive has Phantasy Star IV)
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Post by r0ck3rz on Sept 4, 2014 7:37:33 GMT -5
^That's just 1 reason I'll never side with disc consoles over cartridge(or Hucard) consoles.
I'll give the Saturn this though, especially for a console few had by comparison, it had an edge over all the rest in offline multi-player. I mean, you needed an adapter, but still, 10 player Bomberman, 6 player beat' em ups and import wrestling games, and all sorts of others.
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Post by Allie on Sept 4, 2014 9:29:24 GMT -5
And let's not underestimate how big a deal the Saturn port of X-Men vs. Street Fighter was at the time of its release. It was a big enough deal that even retail game stores in the middle of dustbowl nowhere started stocking import Saturn games and bypass carts to boot them with. Also : I'm assuming the PS1 shooter in question you mentioned earlier would be Philosoma? I know, I got that too. My Saturn wasn't modded yet but I had a 1st gen Action Replay (the one without additional RAM) which allowed me to boot imports (and play them at 50Hz ) so I had learned to boot the Saturn with it, and the split second the screen went black I had to yank the AR out and jam the 4MB ram cart in. The game ran, but slowly and glitchy. I had it modded and it ran perfectly from then on. Truly awesome port, but I recall that in the busiest of moments there was some sprite flicker. The shmup on PS1 I was talking about was The Raiden Project, which had Raiden II on it. Eh, I had Galactic Attack. At least on an NTSC-U Saturn, you had a good amount of time on the Capcom games (XvSF and Vampire Savior) to jam the RAM cart in. It was the SNK games where you had to be lightning-quick to make it work. ESPECIALLY Samurai Shodown 3. SS4, the Real Bout Fatal Fury games, and KoF 97 gave you a slightly longer time period than SS3 did to get it down. The interesting part was that the US release of Marvel Super Heroes worked with the RAM cart too...
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Post by Dee Liteyears on Sept 4, 2014 9:56:28 GMT -5
always liked this design*g Jokes aside, the Mega Drive's design only gets trumped if you add an MCD to it. So hi-tech looking...(it's also great that the MD1/MCD2 combo fits exactly in our TV rack^^)
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