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Post by Joseph Joestar on Oct 13, 2014 11:29:08 GMT -5
Apparently Polygon being Polygon rated down Bayonetta 2 because of "over-sexualization." I think my favorite tweet response to this went something like "Polygon reviewing this game is like asking a vegan to review a bacon cheeseburger."
I think oversexualization's a valid complaint in a lot of games - but the review basically came down to him saying "there's some good things but I'm mad because it offends me." It seems really pointless; the least he could have done was say "add 2 points if you're a dirty chauvinist pig"...
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Post by Échalote on Oct 13, 2014 11:48:27 GMT -5
I still don't get why ppl cares that someone on the internet gave a game a good score instead of a slightly better good score, it's not like it's going to affect sales or anything. (It doesn't even have to be sexualization related, i've seen a friend get shat on last december because he gave Bravely Default a 7/10 due to the 2nd half of the game)
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2014 12:49:43 GMT -5
I still don't get why ppl cares that someone on the internet gave a game a good score instead of a slightly better good score, it's not like it's going to affect sales or anything. Sadly, publishers and shareholders put a lot of weight towards a game's Metacritic score, regardless of how much it actually impacts sales. Enough that it determines the devs' pay in some cases, and that it pushes game design towards decisions that they think will make it score better. Admittedly, this is more true for Western companies. Polygon is just Kotaku's twin at this point. Both sites are so full of the same kind of clickbait bullshit as to be almost indistinguishable.
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Post by Garamoth on Oct 13, 2014 14:56:33 GMT -5
Apparently Polygon being Polygon rated down Bayonetta 2 because of "over-sexualization." I think my favorite tweet response to this went something like "Polygon reviewing this game is like asking a vegan to review a bacon cheeseburger." I think oversexualization's a valid complaint in a lot of games - but the review basically came down to him saying "there's some good things but I'm mad because it offends me." It seems really pointless; the least he could have done was say "add 2 points if you're a dirty chauvinist pig"... I'm not surprised. The mental landscape of video game reviewers changed quite a bit in the 4 years between the two games. Although... isn't Bayonetta about Girrrl Power? Doesn't that make any display of sexiness empowering and positive? Anyway, I liked the first one, but I don't have a Wii U I don't plan on getting one. Oh well.
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Post by Ike on Oct 13, 2014 16:09:50 GMT -5
Apparently Polygon being Polygon rated down Bayonetta 2 because of "over-sexualization." I think my favorite tweet response to this went something like "Polygon reviewing this game is like asking a vegan to review a bacon cheeseburger." I think oversexualization's a valid complaint in a lot of games - but the review basically came down to him saying "there's some good things but I'm mad because it offends me." It seems really pointless; the least he could have done was say "add 2 points if you're a dirty chauvinist pig"... I'm not surprised. The mental landscape of video game reviewers changed quite a bit in the 4 years between the two games. Although... isn't Bayonetta about Girrrl Power? Doesn't that make any display of sexiness empowering and positive? harkavagrant.com/index.php?id=311Depends on which breed of feminist you ask. I personally find it hard to find Bayonetta sexy in any titillating sort of way, it feels to me like it's just another thing to be super over-the-top. It's definitely over-sexualized but in a game where everything is ramped up to 11 it feels a little ironic to me. Not that that excuses it, but I personally am not bothered by it as much as I would be in other games.
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Post by kaoru on Oct 13, 2014 16:14:17 GMT -5
It's hard to find a giant praying mantis wearing a human skin suit attractive, no matter how hooker her boots are.
Unless you are into giant insect aliens. Good for you, then o.ob
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Post by Joseph Joestar on Oct 13, 2014 16:32:47 GMT -5
Garamoth: Good news is that it's almost a given that it'll be on other consoles sooner or later; I can't think of anything that's stayed an exclusive for very long these days. I mean at least I hope this'll be the case... I'm not surprised. The mental landscape of video game reviewers changed quite a bit in the 4 years between the two games. Although... isn't Bayonetta about Girrrl Power? Doesn't that make any display of sexiness empowering and positive? harkavagrant.com/index.php?id=311Depends on which breed of feminist you ask. I personally find it hard to find Bayonetta sexy in any titillating sort of way, it feels to me like it's just another thing to be super over-the-top. It's definitely over-sexualized but in a game where everything is ramped up to 11 it feels a little ironic to me. Not that that excuses it, but I personally am not bothered by it as much as I would be in other games. I totally agree with the above. Dragon's Crown is another one like that; the character designs are exaggerated as hell and quite frankly, hideous. It seemed more like part of the design aesthetic, though, to take fantasy art stereotypes and crank them up to ludicrous speed. Anyway, in the case of that Polygon review it's kind of a "why did you even bother assigning this to that guy?" review. It's like asking someone to judge a Mr. Universe competition when you know damn well they'll take off points on every contestant for distorting. I would also like to see figures on Dragon's Crown (and eventually, Bayonetta 2) on which groups were angered about what; I'm sure this is because it's coming from my skewed perspective, but whenever something like the Polygon review happens and someone's taking offense at oversexualization it feels like the first (or only) people to the scene are white guys. I mean, I'm not saying us guys SHOULDN'T, we need to do our part to help fight against misogyny, but it really feels like a lot of folks like this reviewer are trying to wage wars for other people. BTW, having unfortunately seen Jackoff Chan Adventures The Least I Could Do, I wish the parody in the link above would actually happen to Ryan Sohmer and his mary sue, but minus the part of them getting laid. It's hard to find a giant praying mantis wearing a human skin suit attractive, no matter how hooker her boots are. I just wanted to say that the above is an incredibly elegant way of describing the game's character designs. Kind of like Raiden in Metal Gear Solid 2, the weird proportions on the legs vs. head make me think of skinny nightmare dinosaurs or Orbital Frames.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2014 17:31:04 GMT -5
Garamoth: Good news is that it's almost a given that it'll be on other consoles sooner or later; I can't think of anything that's stayed an exclusive for very long these days. I mean at least I hope this'll be the case... After everything Kamiya's said it's very unlikely. He wants it to stay an exclusive out of respect to Nintendo, and he's been pretty vocal about shutting up people who whine about it to him on Twitter. It could theoretically happen because Sega owns the Bayonetta IP, and Nintendo's contract for the license won't last, but it would be going against Platinum's wishes and they'd have to hire someone else to do the porting job. Though I doubt Platinum would ever agree to work directly with Sega again regardless, after how they handled Anarchy Reigns...
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Post by Garamoth on Oct 13, 2014 17:48:37 GMT -5
So it's an exclusive exclusive for realsies forever? Hmm, it's a shame then. We'll see, I guess.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2014 17:57:16 GMT -5
Who's to say you won't pick up a Wii U a couple of years or less down the road? I find that all these NeoGAF neckbeard types who rant about "GRR THIS SYSTEM SUCKS NEVER BUYING IT EVER" always end up caving in when there's a hyped exclusive they don't want to pass up, the hardware price drops, or the library fills out enough to their liking. Not saying you're one of those people, but still.
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Post by TheChosen on Oct 13, 2014 18:01:12 GMT -5
I honestly doubt this will ever go multiplatform what with the amount of Nintendo related content in it. They could remove them of course, but would that be worth it?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2014 18:02:21 GMT -5
I honestly doubt this will ever go multiplatform what with the amount of Nintendo related content in it. They could remove them of course, but would that be worth it? Banjo-Tooie made it onto XBLA even with the Donkey Kong cameo. All they had to do was remove his tie. I agree with you, though. It's rumored that the Wii U version of Smash has a Bayonetta trophy, but we'll see.
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Post by Joseph Joestar on Oct 13, 2014 18:15:52 GMT -5
Garamoth: Good news is that it's almost a given that it'll be on other consoles sooner or later; I can't think of anything that's stayed an exclusive for very long these days. I mean at least I hope this'll be the case... After everything Kamiya's said it's very unlikely. He wants it to stay an exclusive out of respect to Nintendo, and he's been pretty vocal about shutting up people who whine about it to him on Twitter. It could theoretically happen because Sega owns the Bayonetta IP, and Nintendo's contract for the license won't last, but it would be going against Platinum's wishes and they'd have to hire someone else to do the porting job. Though I doubt Platinum would ever agree to work directly with Sega again regardless, after how they handled Anarchy Reigns... Ah, my bad. That makes total sense considering Kamiya though. Although, it would be weird if that turned into a Ninja Gaiden-like situation that led to a similar parting of the ways ...
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2014 18:26:12 GMT -5
Except going by Kamiya's Twitter, he WASN'T THE ONE IN CHARGE OF BAYO 2!!! STOP SAYING HE WAS IN CHARGE OF BAYO 2!!!
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Post by Feynman on Oct 13, 2014 18:29:00 GMT -5
Apparently Polygon being Polygon rated down Bayonetta 2 because of "over-sexualization." I think my favorite tweet response to this went something like "Polygon reviewing this game is like asking a vegan to review a bacon cheeseburger." I think oversexualization's a valid complaint in a lot of games - but the review basically came down to him saying "there's some good things but I'm mad because it offends me." It seems really pointless; the least he could have done was say "add 2 points if you're a dirty chauvinist pig"... Dragging one's political baggage into a games review is utterly ridiculous as far as I'm concerned. Okay, you don't like the games campy, over-the-top "sexiness." And it is certainly okay to mention that in the text of your review. But the goal of a critic is not to review what a game isn't, it is to review what a game is. That means you need to identify what a game is trying to do, then decide how well it achieves that goal. For example, nobody would consider it acceptable for a games critic to say something like: - The game is super great but it's an RPG and I hate numbers. 6/10. - The mechanics of Resident Evil 4 are brilliant but video game blood makes me squeamish so I had to play the game with my eyes closed and couldn't get anywhere. 4/10. - I give GTA V a 0/10 because it is simply glorifying a life of crime. That kind of nonsense would be insane, right? Your job as a critic is to identify what the aesthetic is, what it is trying to achieve, and whether it manages to pull it off. Your job is not to use your personal biases to flippantly discard an aesthetic out of hand. And frankly, Bayonetta is a witch, right? In literature and stories throughout time, witches generally fall into two broad categories: the old warty crone and the manipulative seductress. Guess which category Bayonetta falls into*? Bayonetta wields her sexuality like a weapon. Her high heels have guns strapped to them. Her hair comes to life and summons demons to rip her enemies apart. The moment that Bayonetta uncovers her body is the same moment you find that your head has been removed from your shoulders**. Combine this with Platinum's over-the-top, campy style and suddenly Bayonetta's posing makes a lot more sense. On top of that, Bayonetta is always, always the one in control. She's never a background object. She's never just eye candy following a man around. She is portrayed as being stronger and smarter than everyone around her, and the closest thing she has to a "love interest" spends all his time two steps behind her struggling to catch up... when she isn't busy ignoring him completely. Bayonetta is one of gaming's stronger female characters***, and trying to shame the game for some sexy posing is, I feel, missing the forest for the trees. * the praying mantis category. But a manipulative seductress praying mantis! ** much like a praying mantis. *** and the strongest praying mantis by a mile.
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