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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2016 23:21:07 GMT -5
Reviews are subjective, but they shouldn't include false information. It's reasonable to speculate about influences, but the truth about them isn't subjective. For an extreme example, it wouldn't make sense to write Xenoblade inspired Xenogears. Kikujade is saying that the claim about NGE obviously inspiring Xenogears is wrong. We don't know everything about the development, so it's still possible that some aspects of the game were inspired by NGE, and the similarities are noteworthy. However, I think the information in the link is interesting and adds more context. The article might be improved by mentioning things like when the story was written or the similarities coming from common cited inspirations like Childhood's End. Good point! Still think the Kiku is being just a tad self-serious on the subject, though.
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Post by Maciej Miszczyk on Sept 21, 2016 23:24:02 GMT -5
I might have been mistaken about the influence (after NGE came out, a lot of Japanese media got inspired by it and Xenogears seems to fit the bill) but how is it 'slander' and how is it passing an opinion as a fact as opposed to simply making a mistake? there's nothing wrong with being inspired by something and I generally think Xenogears was a good game.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2016 23:30:55 GMT -5
Also, it categorically couldn't be slander. It's libel.
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Post by kikujade on Sept 22, 2016 14:56:00 GMT -5
I started reading that write-up, and while it seems interesting, it's one of those debates that really misses the forest for the trees. Yes, when you start comparing individual screws and bolts, Xenogears and Evangelion are pretty different - one definitely doesn't completely clone the other. But both have mecha and both have a major focus on religion, particularly misuse of Christian iconography. These aren't exactly common themes to have together, and I have a hard time believing that one didn't influence the other, at least on some level, especially given its massive popularity. I think it might be worth adding to our review that Saga claims she wasn't inspired by Eva...but a cursory Google doesn't show any other source for this claim beyond your link. I wouldn't call it slander though, there's basically an Evangelion thread over in the Off Topic forum and most everyone there thinks it's pretty interesting, if not always fantastic. The comparison presented here isn't used as a derogative, even though I have heard the snarkier side of the internet refer to it as "Evangelion fan fiction", which I don't really agree with. The only 2 deciding factors which negate NGE's influences on Xenogears came from sources which appear to have been lost on the internet. I have been trying to find them, but to no avail, the link I shared is all that's left. The misterious interview where Soraya denied NGE, I can't even find out who did it or even the date. Then there's the date of the initial conception of the plot. Soraya stated she wrote it together with Takahashi in 1994, but that reference is forever lost as it was found on an FAQ she had on a website called "Fringe" in 2005, or something of the sort. I'm not evem sure what "Fringe" is. The links to the references on page 4 of the document are all expired links, sadly, but at least you will see the names and dates of the interviews. betweenlifeandgames.com/analyses/history-xenogears-xenosaga-part-4-monolith-soft-nintendo/At this point, everyone can believe what they will as there are no longer verifiable online sources, but I think the guy on this document made a very good case against NGE influencing Xenogears. EDIT #1: The infamous FAQ link still works, this at least backs up the date of creation of the plot in 1994. web.archive.org/web/20110927005049/http://xenoverse.xenotensei.com/xenosaganew/sorayasfaq.htmEDIT #2: There also this: archive.is/LDalXTakahashi submitted the Xenogears script in 1995, initally hoping it would become the script for FF7, buy Sakaguchi rejected feeling the story was too dark for a Final Fantasy game. Evangelion was first aired in October 1995 (in the last quarter of the year). This makes it further unlikely to Takahashi or Soraya having influences from Hideaki Anno and his work. EDIT #3: On the Siliconera 2010 interview, she stated: "I and Tetsuya Takahashi originally submitted it as a script idea for Final Fantasy VII. While we were told that it was too dark and complicated for a fantasy, the boss was kind enough to give Takahashi a chance to launch a new project. Then Takahashi and I wrote up the full screenplay which contained cutscene-dialogues in final form, thus the project was born. The works of Nietzsche, Freud and Jung happened to be part of common interests I shared with Takahashi. Xenogears is basically a story about "where do we come from, what are we, where are we going". In that respect, we were inspired by those concepts a lot. " Read more at www.siliconera.com/2010/06/11/soraya-saga-on-xenogears-and-xenosaga/#PEmDQhgxR5Oc4H1J.99
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Post by kaoru on Sept 22, 2016 15:11:15 GMT -5
It'd be a very interesting coincidence that both Evangelion and Xenogears having absolutely no influence on each other, when running out of time/budget, decided to just put the characters on a chair in an empty room and tell not show you the finale
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Post by The Great Klaid on Sept 22, 2016 20:17:29 GMT -5
Yeah there is so much in common it's hard to believe that there is nothing. And it's one thing to say you had submitted a script before it came out. But I mean what actually looks like the first script? Certainly not video games. Case in point, Miyamoto said he had planned to have Yoshi in Super Mario Bros.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2016 20:21:39 GMT -5
Yeah, creative works are not born, fully formed out of their creators' brows. They change and evolve as the project is developed. This is especially true of Japanese game design, where they often don't have several key aspects nailed down until the job is almost complete. My guess would be that Xenogears began as a story that rips off Star Wars and 2001, then steadily grew to include all of the stuff we know and love it for now.
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Post by The Great Klaid on Sept 22, 2016 20:30:56 GMT -5
It's not to say Xenogears is the Evangelion video game either. Which is something that gets kind of insinuated at times. Because Evangelion is still about it's characters and Xenogears is about it's world. Because god knows the inverse is so disappointing. I can't tell you how much I wanted to know about Id or The Emperor or Grahf or Fei or Citan or Rasmus or the guy I always get mixed up with Rasmus or Elly or fucking everyone.
All that's said is the two are inextricably (holy shit I spelled that right on the first shot) linked. I mean Weltall is fucking purple isn't it?
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Post by kikujade on Sept 23, 2016 8:14:46 GMT -5
I mean Weltall is fucking purple isn't it? Ranma 1/2 has black hair, surely that must mean its heavily inspired on Son Goku, right?
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Post by Échalote on Sept 23, 2016 9:03:36 GMT -5
Are you comparing having one of the most widespread hair color to PURPLE HUMAN MANNED GIANT ROBOTS ?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2016 11:40:08 GMT -5
I mean Weltall is fucking purple isn't it? Ranma 1/2 has black hair, surely that must mean its heavily inspired on Son Goku, right? Maybe if Ranma had black, Sonic the Hedgehog-style hair, sure.
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Post by kaoru on Sept 23, 2016 12:04:38 GMT -5
Ranma is Son Goku after falling into a pond in which the main character of a better show drowned. It was a tragic story, I tell you.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2016 12:28:12 GMT -5
Shampoo > Chi-Chi. Hell, Ukyo > Chi-Chi.
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Post by The Great Klaid on Sept 23, 2016 18:39:52 GMT -5
I mean Weltall is fucking purple isn't it? Ranma 1/2 has black hair, surely that must mean its heavily inspired on Son Goku, right? Are you comparing having one of the most widespread hair color to PURPLE HUMAN MANNED GIANT ROBOTS ? I mean you're just fucking with me now. Right?
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Post by Amelia on Sept 25, 2016 11:02:13 GMT -5
I might have been mistaken about the influence (after NGE came out, a lot of Japanese media got inspired by it and Xenogears seems to fit the bill) but how is it 'slander' and how is it passing an opinion as a fact as opposed to simply making a mistake? there's nothing wrong with being inspired by something and I generally think Xenogears was a good game. Yeah, it's definitely not slander. You even wrote "not to say that Xenogears is just a rip-off of a popular TV series," and it makes sense to write about the similarities between them, whether directly inspired or not. I really enjoyed your article, hope my post didn't give the wrong impression. As far as the game's inspirations, I think it'd be cool for someone (not necessarily hg101) to make an article pointing out all the likely mecha anime influences and references, if that doesn't already exist. I know Takahashi is a huge mecha fan, but I haven't seen enough to catch everything.
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