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Post by eatersthemanfool on Jan 25, 2019 22:19:19 GMT -5
I had taz-mania as a kid and hated it then.
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Post by toei on Jan 25, 2019 22:41:33 GMT -5
To pile on to the Taz hate, I had Genesis Taz Mania and really hated it, too. I probably received it as a birthday gift in 1993 - for some reason, Taz was everywhere that year. I even had a T-shirt where he was holding the Stanley Cup in a Canadians uniform. Not to mention the famous Kriss Kross parody poster.
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Post by wyrdwad on Jan 26, 2019 0:58:45 GMT -5
I liked Bubsy 1 too, but I definitely think the first world is all I need to play. It’s like they put all effort in the first few levels, and then it turns into a much less polished and more random experience imo. I completely disagree with this. My absolute fondest memories of the game are the wild west train level, the carnival level with the roller coaster, and the final stage with all the alien spaceships and warp doors. Each of those stages felt really focused and unique to me, providing an experience entirely unlike any of the previous stages. They really represented sincere attempts by the creators to make the game as diverse and interesting as possible -- and overall, I feel that it worked quite well. In fact, I'd say the best track on the game's OST, by a country mile, is that final stage theme. It's seriously good stuff, and to this day gets me really pumped for epic space exploration every time I hear it. -Tom
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Post by edmonddantes on Jan 26, 2019 12:14:49 GMT -5
I always liked how Bubsy games came with comics.
Though to pile on the Bubsy 2 hate, I didn't like how he suddenly had all these sidekick characters--sorta similar to what some people complain about with Sonic, but here they were introduced all at once and honestly weren't that interesting a premise even when I was a kid. I remember especially hating that damn armadillo for some reason (though I've heard he's likable in the animated special, which I've never seen).
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Post by ZenithianHero on Jan 26, 2019 14:32:30 GMT -5
I always liked how Bubsy games came with comics. Though to pile on the Bubsy 2 hate, I didn't like how he suddenly had all these sidekick characters--sorta similar to what some people complain about with Sonic, but here they were introduced all at once and honestly weren't that interesting a premise even when I was a kid. I remember especially hating that damn armadillo for some reason (though I've heard he's likable in the animated special, which I've never seen). I'm opposite, I liked the minigames with the armadillo and the frog in the pool. Only good parts of the game. But I'm also the guy who likes Sonic's friends in just near everything so *shrug* The actual game was just a mess in level design. Which is a shame because I too liked the original Bubsy. Wasn't as solid as a Nintendo or Sega platformer at the time but you can tell there was some effort into where everybody was placed and rhythm of the gameplay. Bubsy 2 you had to tiptoe and examine everybody to make sure you don't die in seconds.
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Post by edmonddantes on Jan 27, 2019 16:29:26 GMT -5
ITT: The secret Bubsy fanbase is revealed!
Actually it wasn't the minigames, I just thought the actual characters were dorks except for Bubsy himself. Especially didn't like that damn pig guy who served as the villain. Like, no wonder the later games went back to using the Woolies. The Woolies are at least kinda likable.
... Getting back on topic... one game that gets dissed a lot (even to the point of Lazy Game Reviews considering it one of the worst PC games ever made) is Outpost by Sierra On-Line.
Now, Outpost does have severe issues... some of which I was blind to as a kid. For instance the game (even patched to version 1.5) is clearly unfinished, and has a bug which can show up randomly which makes your population die off for no reason. The main thing I discovered on my recent replay though is just that the game is so easy to cheese. As a kid I used to have a problem of everyone hating me, but now its like... I know that as long as I put certain buildings in certain spaces (being certainly specific at certain times) I will be loved.
If you don't know, Outpost is basically a SimCity in space kinda deal, where the premise is that life on Earth was wiped out, but your ship contains the last survivors and you're setting up a colony on a new planet. It was attempting to be really scientifically accurate and such, but I'm not sure how much of that went into the game.
What I will say though is I somehow still love it even knowing how utterly broken it is. Part of it is that I like the aesthetic (honestly, I can't stand a lot of how modern sci-fi looks) and just think the concept is interesting, and really feel like Outpost could be something if, say, some fans came along and made a "completely functioning game" version.
... Sierra also made a sequel, Outpost 2, in which they for some reason went with an RTS style. In this, you had an option to play either pure city-building (tho enemies would show up if you ever constructed military units)* or you could play a Campaign with a storyline. I had one problem with this... the campaign was stupidly hard, even by RTS standards, especially since there was a "timer" of sorts in many missions where some sort of natural disaster would show up and start breaking things if you took too long. In fact escaping/dealing with this disaster (a sort of man-made ooze or something) is the thrust of the plot.
In essence... Outpost is a good setting, aesthetic and idea that happens to just be applied to an unfinished game, and Outpost 2 got ignored mainly just for being a sequel to a game nobody liked. And that's terrible. I still hope some fan project comes along that makes a functional version of the first Outpost.
* If you're wondering how there are enemies... basically half of humanity decides they don't want to follow your leadership and so they set up what is called a "Rebel Colony." You do eventually have the option of diplomacy, but if you wind up doing a seriously better job than they do, their people will desert, leave their colony a ghost town, and come over to yours. Vice-versa applies if you suck.
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Post by kingmike on Jan 27, 2019 22:18:34 GMT -5
Secret of Evermore is probably one of the most unnecessarily-maligned games out there. Basically everyone back in the day crapped on it for one of two reasons: it wasn't Secret of Mana, or blaming it for the canceled of the Secret of Mana 2 localization. People probably just didn't like that it was a different experience than Mana. A different setting than most other games and one that dared to have a more atmospheric soundtrack than having an orchestra playing the entire game like we were used to. It's got a few nasty bugs yes but it's still a pretty enjoyable game taken by itself. I'd say a good effort for what was reportedly a rookie dev team, still better than a number of other games.
Odd that among that many games Square-Enix released on Wii VC, was this the only Square western-released SNES game left off the VC?
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Post by toei on Jan 27, 2019 22:46:01 GMT -5
Always liked Secret of Evermore. There's been a number of attempts by Westerners to do a Japanese-style RPG, but this is the only good one I've played so far.
Which reminds me, I legitimately like Final Fantasy: Mystic Quest (for the Europeans, I'm not talking about Seiken Densetsu / FF Adventure on Game Boy). It was made by the same team that did FF Legends 3, which wasn't too, too terrible for a Gameboy RPG, and it's pretty damn good.
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Post by wyrdwad on Jan 27, 2019 23:30:14 GMT -5
Seconded on Mystic Quest. That game gets a lot of hate, and... yeah, its story was pure throwaway junk, but the gameplay was pretty fun and innovative, with the ability to use weapon skills on the map for navigation and puzzle solving. And battles were fun despite their simplicity, if only because the presentation was so good -- flashy spells, enemies that showed damage via altered sprites, and THE BEST FREAKING BATTLE THEMES OF THE ENTIRE 16-BIT ERA, SERIOUSLY HOLY CRAP WHY IS MYSTIC QUEST'S SOUNDTRACK SO RIDICULOUSLY BADASS?!
-Tom
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Post by kaoru on Jan 28, 2019 3:04:01 GMT -5
From my experience, Mystic Quest Legend/FF: Mystic Quest/FF USA has a way worse rep in the North American regions than Europe. I mean by now, thanks to the power of the internet, its bad rep went around across borders, but back when most people over here seemed to have decently fond memories as it being their Baby's First RPG... which really is exactly what the game tried to be.
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Post by dsparil on Jan 28, 2019 7:21:56 GMT -5
I always liked Mystic Quest too. It's always absurd how games for beginners get maligned for being well, games for beginners. It's a fun game, and the way the boss sprites change as they take damage is a nice touch.
I can't remember there being any hate for Secret of Evermore until the notion that it somehow prevented SD3 from being released when that was never planned in the first place started to spread; the most "official" but still speculative reason being that it wouldn't have passed NoA's QA.
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Post by wyrdwad on Jan 28, 2019 9:48:06 GMT -5
I disliked Secret of Evermore as a kid, and still rather dislike it now, but I acknowledge that it's good for what it is. My reason for disliking it is because the story is practically nonexistent (meaning it's 95% directionless dungeon-crawler at its core), constantly pausing to dig up whatever your dog sniffs out hampers the flow of gameplay, and the game's dearth of music in favor of ambient sound effects felt like a poor choice that made it much harder to get into as a 16-bit action RPG (sound is an important part of any game, with action games in particular really needing music IMHO in order to truly convey urgency, and 8- and 16-bit games especially losing a lot of their luster when they lack BGM).
The last point was always especially painful for me, since the scant few tracks that DO exist in Secret of Evermore are really good, making me wish I could hear them more often, and hear more such tracks as the game progresses.
-Tom
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Post by ommadawnyawn2 on Jan 28, 2019 12:05:46 GMT -5
Music was handled dynamically in Evermore, with ambient pieces for slower/calmer areas where you search for ingredients more (or for a particular mood in some areas) and intense music for bosses and mini-bosses, then melodic pieces in-between. Too many mazes in that game though, but it's still better than Mana to me.
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Post by ZenithianHero on Jan 28, 2019 12:36:54 GMT -5
I always liked Mystic Quest too. It's always absurd how games for beginners get maligned for being well, games for beginners. It's a fun game, and the way the boss sprites change as they take damage is a nice touch. Reminds me of Evolution on Dreamcast. Beginner friendly and on the simple side. Liked it a lot.
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Post by edmonddantes on Jan 29, 2019 13:49:16 GMT -5
I used to really like Evermore, but as an adult my problem is actually one of the same ones I have with Mana--the weapon levelling. Except that in Evermore you have to do it for each individual weapon even if the new weapon is just an upgrade--so you get a new sword, it starts at Lv. 0, whereas in Mana sword levels carried over. I just thought that was a poor design choice. As a kid I used to always grind the weapon levels (not the magic levels though, since the alchemy reagents were limited and some spells, once you used them, they were gone for good) but not anymore.
Sharing in the Mystic Quest love, it always surprised me people hated that game.
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