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Post by Bobinator on Aug 7, 2014 0:09:49 GMT -5
The only thing really "hipster" about it are the memes that show up every so often, and really, if that's going to be a dealkiller, that's going to remove about 75% of games released in the last... let's say, five years, from your potential library. I personally think memes are stupid and annoying, at best, and I still like the game, so I wouldn't call it an issue.
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Post by Feynman on Aug 7, 2014 0:12:20 GMT -5
Don't worry about "ruining" your game in La-Mulana (either in the original game or the remake). You can never get yourself stuck. There are only two items you can lose forever, and they aren't necessary to complete the game. Not only that, but you KNOW when you've ruined your chances of getting those items as soon as it happens, so you can reload your game and try again. It's not the kind of situation where you lose something but don't know until hours later. There are also a couple minor shortcuts you can break, but they aren't a big deal and it just means you need to take a small detour in a couple areas.
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Post by wyrdwad on Aug 7, 2014 0:16:40 GMT -5
Don't worry about "ruining" your game in La-Mulana (either in the original game or the remake). You can never get yourself stuck. There are only two items you can lose forever, and they aren't necessary to complete the game. Not only that, but you KNOW when you've ruined your chances of getting those items as soon as it happens, so you can reload your game and try again. It's not the kind of situation where you lose something but don't know until hours later. There are also a couple minor shortcuts you can break, but they aren't a big deal and it just means you need to take a small detour in a couple areas. It IS possible to get yourself stuck early on, if you -- like me -- don't figure out the puzzle to get the Holy Grail and wind up getting yourself caught in a trap in the Sun Temple. But that's a very unlikely situation to occur unless you're as much of an idiot as I am, and even then, a quick reload and you're good as new.  -Tom |
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Post by Scylla on Aug 7, 2014 0:26:35 GMT -5
"Hipster" title? Uh...what? What is so "hipster" about "Guacamelee"? What does "hipster" even mean anymore? Particularly in this context? Is that just the label that (American/Western) indie game studios are forced to bear for being indie (and American/Western)? Because this isn't the first time I've seen this attitude spouted out on here, let alone in general, which is really just sad. And besides Guacamelee is faaaar from the first game to have a punny title, and I'm not talking about "hipster" game studios either. You have your Oddworld with Abe and his Oddysee and his Exoddus, and King's Quest which was Heir Today, Gone Tomorrow, and there surely must be others I just can't think of right now. And not "punny" but there's also the DS Dragon Quest games with those dumb alliterations for their subtitle names (dunno if those were made up just for the American shelves or or not, still). The reality is that most American indie game studios ARE populated by hipsters. That's not to say that there's anything about independent game design that is inherently hipster, but that's simply the culture that has permeated the field and at this point probably self-reinforces itself. Guacamelee just strikes as the kind of thing that would be developed in the Flatiron District of Manhattan or in Dumbo, Brooklyn in a decrepit old building with a rat's hole of a studio operated by a bunch of disorganized flakes who can barely keep their studio financially afloat but manage to keep things going by taking advantage of a bunch of eager early 20-something-year-old hipsters who will work for a pittance, seeing as they're probably already supported by mum and dad, as long as they can bring their dream game to life, which is of course "very edgy and stylish and clever" and in most cases ends up being yet another disposable sub-par mobile game. I have a little bit of firsthand experience in this world, and needless to say, I have a certain distaste for it. I don't think I really need to explain what exactly hipster culture is as there have been plenty of articles and what have you examining it, but I do think if you've never been to NYC, where it's really booming in certain neighborhoods, it's probably a little hard to grasp. I will say this culture is staggeringly different from us regular nerds who play mainstream home console and handheld games, to the point that it feels like they exist in an entirely different, isolated industry. Dealing with them is sort of like how I feel when I read one of those top however many games lists in Retro Gamer and see multiple games in the Top 20 that I've never even heard of and think to myself "Wow, these people really had a very different gaming experience and background." I think in most cases I would be against corny puns in game titles. Save that for the marketing materials or in-game text, when appropriate. I actually like making dumb puns and include them in my articles and editing and such, but Tom already summed it up better than I probably could about when it's charming in a groan-inducing kind of way and when it has that off-putting "I'm-so-clever-swagger" as he put it. The latter of which is an attitude prevalent among hipsters, to bring it full circle. |
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Post by Feynman on Aug 7, 2014 1:16:48 GMT -5
Don't worry about "ruining" your game in La-Mulana (either in the original game or the remake). You can never get yourself stuck. There are only two items you can lose forever, and they aren't necessary to complete the game. Not only that, but you KNOW when you've ruined your chances of getting those items as soon as it happens, so you can reload your game and try again. It's not the kind of situation where you lose something but don't know until hours later. There are also a couple minor shortcuts you can break, but they aren't a big deal and it just means you need to take a small detour in a couple areas. It IS possible to get yourself stuck early on, if you -- like me -- don't figure out the puzzle to get the Holy Grail and wind up getting yourself caught in a trap in the Sun Temple. But that's a very unlikely situation to occur unless you're as much of an idiot as I am, and even then, a quick reload and you're good as new. -Tom Hah, I never even tried to do that. But yeah, that's an uncommon situation and nothing a reload doesn't fix... and again, you KNOW you're stuck. La-Mulana never has any situation where you press a switch and then 5 hours later discover you've ruined something forever. The worst case scenario I can think of is a player activating hard mode and not realizing what they've done until hours later after overwriting all of their save files, but that's highly unlikely, to say the least. |
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Post by Terrifying on Aug 7, 2014 1:46:56 GMT -5
The biggest problem I have with La-Mulana is that when you leave the game alone for a while and pick it up again, then you're most likely clueless in where to go next. This has happened to me again recently... I don't have a clue. Can you guys help me out by looking at these two shots?   Thanks in advance.  |
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Post by jjmcjj on Aug 7, 2014 1:47:57 GMT -5
"Hipster" title? Uh...what? What is so "hipster" about "Guacamelee"? What does "hipster" even mean anymore? Particularly in this context? Is that just the label that (American/Western) indie game studios are forced to bear for being indie (and American/Western)? Because this isn't the first time I've seen this attitude spouted out on here, let alone in general, which is really just sad. And besides Guacamelee is faaaar from the first game to have a punny title, and I'm not talking about "hipster" game studios either. You have your Oddworld with Abe and his Oddysee and his Exoddus, and King's Quest which was Heir Today, Gone Tomorrow, and there surely must be others I just can't think of right now. And not "punny" but there's also the DS Dragon Quest games with those dumb alliterations for their subtitle names (dunno if those were made up just for the American shelves or or not, still). Guacamelee just strikes as the kind of thing that would be developed in the Flatiron District of Manhattan or in Dumbo, Brooklyn in a decrepit old building with a rat's hole of a studio operated by a bunch of disorganized flakes who can barely keep their studio financially afloat but manage to keep things going by taking advantage of a bunch of eager early 20-something-year-old hipsters who will work for a pittance, seeing as they're probably already supported by mum and dad, as long as they can bring their dream game to life, which is of course "very edgy and stylish and clever" and in most cases ends up being yet another disposable sub-par mobile game. ... if this is the impression you get from looking at Guacamelee then your head space is somewhere I don't know but I know I never want to know, or to be stuck in myself. And in all honesty, "hipster" is a term that really has lost its meaning since it's been so badly used and abused and everyone seems to have a different definition of what one is. The time the word was invented I'm sure it meant something but now... ech. I guess a synonym for "faux-hemian" is the most accepted but what that has to do with this game you've all lost me there. I can sort of see where you're coming from in that there are games that try to be more clever than they are, trying to be "artsy" without being artful or whatever, I have seen plenty of such games on Steam all the time. Guacamelee is a far cry from one of those let me say. And I still don't understand why the title is such a cause of aggravation here. To me doesn't fall into either category of pun that wyrdwad mentioned - to me it falls under a third category where it's just a... pun, a title that I don't think was intended to cause this much angst, but rather that "this game has a luchador theme and with mechanics stressing melee combat and with a cartoony aesthetic so... Guacamelee, OK, yeah that'll work." I don't believe they put as much thought into the title as we are making it here. |
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Post by jjmcjj on Aug 7, 2014 1:53:21 GMT -5
And thanks for the responses about La-Mulana. Another impression I get is that it's a game where it's a good idea to write things down ahead of time (which I have no problem with, I do it for adventure games and assorted games with puzzles all the time). I know that defeating the final boss involves hitting parts of it in a certain order and you'll only know the order from finding two clues found in two separate places (at least for the original that was the case, has that been changed at all in the remake?). Oh yeah, I haven't even given my own answers for this thread, I'll give that some thought and be back in a bit.  |
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Post by wyrdwad on Aug 7, 2014 2:16:08 GMT -5
90s Gamer: Considering you can do things in La-Mulana in almost any order, it's hard to say what you need to do next just from those screenshots. Honestly, La-Mulana is NOT a game you can put down and come back to later -- it's a game you have to play regularly until you beat it. If it's been long enough that you've forgotten your place, I think your only real hope is to restart from the beginning. Either that or just feel around and see if anything comes back to you. And I still don't understand why the title is such a cause of aggravation here. To me doesn't fall into either category of pun that wyrdwad mentioned Again, it's not the title that has me worried (I actually rather like the title!), but the footage I've seen of the game in action. The trailers and screenshots and everything give off that "swagger" vibe to me, like the game is really just trying way too hard to be clever and outrageous. It could just be false advertising -- the game creator's attempts to appeal to the Super Meat Boy crowd (Super Meat Boy is another game that I find has a bit too much swagger, BTW!) -- but my gut's telling me it's a game I wouldn't like. Eventually, I'll find out if my gut is correct. It is about... 75% of the time. But that means Guacamelee has a 25% chance of surprising me. And thanks for the responses about La-Mulana. Another impression I get is that it's a game where it's a good idea to write things down ahead of time (which I have no problem with, I do it for adventure games and assorted games with puzzles all the time). I know that defeating the final boss involves hitting parts of it in a certain order and you'll only know the order from finding two clues found in two separate places (at least for the original that was the case, has that been changed at all in the remake?). Yeah, that's been changed for the remake. That puzzle no longer exists, so no worries there. ...But you're still going to want to write things down, because there are plenty of OTHER obtuse puzzles just like it! -Tom |
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Post by TheGunheart on Aug 7, 2014 2:37:15 GMT -5
So Swagger is the forum's new meaningless buzzword of the day?
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Post by Scylla on Aug 7, 2014 2:56:26 GMT -5
... if this is the impression you get from looking at Guacamelee then your head space is somewhere I don't know but I know I never want to know, or to be stuck in myself. And in all honesty, "hipster" is a term that really has lost its meaning since it's been so badly used and abused and everyone seems to have a different definition of what one is. The time the word was invented I'm sure it meant something but now... ech. I guess a synonym for "faux-hemian" is the most accepted but what that has to do with this game you've all lost me there. I can sort of see where you're coming from in that there are games that try to be more clever than they are, trying to be "artsy" without being artful or whatever, I have seen plenty of such games on Steam all the time. Guacamelee is a far cry from one of those let me say. And I still don't understand why the title is such a cause of aggravation here. To me doesn't fall into either category of pun that wyrdwad mentioned - to me it falls under a third category where it's just a... pun, a title that I don't think was intended to cause this much angst, but rather that "this game has a luchador theme and with mechanics stressing melee combat and with a cartoony aesthetic so... Guacamelee, OK, yeah that'll work." I don't believe they put as much thought into the title as we are making it here. I don't really care how people living in the suburbs of the midwest who have never encountered a hipster in their lives incorrectly throw the term around. I'm using it for the lifestyle and culture it is intended to represent. Like I said before, if you really want to look into it I'm sure you could find articles about the hipster lifestyle in the New York Times and other newspapers or magazines. Some "hipster games" are pretentious art house games that aim to be deep, yes, but not all. Others aim to be edgy and badass and comical. Both styles are cloyingly overdone in their efforts in the vast majority of cases. Like I said before, I haven't played Guacamelee nor looked into it deeply, and if I did, perhaps my assessment of it would change. I'm simply giving my impression of its tone and what it reminds me of. Obviously it's better funded than in my example of a hipster indie studio, seeing as it was released on the major consoles rather than regulated solely to the land of iOS, and for it to get so much praise it must be better than most indie games. Looking up the developer, their staff size is about what I expected, they do have one of those stereotypical sassy hipster studio names, and going off the photo on Wikipedia... well, they do look rather hipster-ish. I'm not using this as an insult, mind you, just saying they give off the same feel as the known and recognized hipster communities and lifestyle I'm familiar with and the game developers that exist within these communities. The title isn't actively aggravating to me. I merely don't care for the vibe it gives off and that makes me less inclined to give the game a chance. First impressions are important, and I'm sure they did think about the title way, waaaaay more than we are here. If it helped them draw in more customers than they would otherwise, customers who enjoyed the game, then from a business standpoint I'd consider it successful, but that comes at the cost of customers like me who may find their consideration of a purchase lessened by it. |
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Post by wyrdwad on Aug 7, 2014 3:02:59 GMT -5
So Swagger is the forum's new meaningless buzzword of the day? Er... two things. One, I'm pretty much the only one using it, aside from Succubus saying she agrees with my assessment. And two, "swagger" has an actual definition, which I'm very specifically using -- and not misusing, either, but using exactly as defined: "(an) ostentatious display of arrogance and conceit." (Source: dictionary.com) That's how I perceive these games that I claim display "swagger." They come across as being showy, and "in-your-face." Swagger really is the perfect word for them, and will absolutely be entering my lexicon of game terms to use when describing titles to other people. There is nothing "meaningless" about it. -Tom |
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Post by Terrifying on Aug 7, 2014 3:41:47 GMT -5
90s Gamer: Considering you can do things in La-Mulana in almost any order, it's hard to say what you need to do next just from those screenshots. Honestly, La-Mulana is NOT a game you can put down and come back to later -- it's a game you have to play regularly until you beat it. If it's been long enough that you've forgotten your place, I think your only real hope is to restart from the beginning. Either that or just feel around and see if anything comes back to you. Yeah. I'll give it a another try tonight I guess... |
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Haruka
Junior Member
Posts: 69
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Post by Haruka on Aug 7, 2014 5:37:12 GMT -5
Ultima III: Exodus <<<< Haja no Fuuin <<<< Dragon Quest <<<< Herakles no Eikou: Tamashii no Shoumei <<<< Dragon Quest II
Tower of Druaga <<<< Hydlide <<<< The Legend of Zelda <<<< The Magic of Scheherazade
Dragon Buster <<<< The Legend of Zelda II: Adventure of Link <<<< Legacy of the Wizard
Probably not what the OP had in mind, but whatever.
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Post by nightdreamer on Aug 7, 2014 9:13:21 GMT -5
By the way, I started a thread that's a 'companion' to this one. |
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