Modern games which surpassed the "established" classics

[Terrifying]

Hey guys,

I wonder if you've noticed games which came out during recent years, which surpassed the "established classics"?

To give an example, I think that Dragon's Crown has surpassed titles like the Capcom D&D games and Golden Axe...
Also, Super Mario 3D world > all previous Super Mario games, in my opinion...

Are there more examples you can think of?

[Feynman]

I already gushed about the game when it launched, but I'm happy to do so again:

Divinity: Original Sin takes the best aspects of Ultima 7 and dramatically improves upon them. Then it takes the best aspects of the tactical combat from games like Fallout and Temple of Elemental Evil and dramatically improves upon them. Then it adds a ton of fresh, interesting, and enjoyable new ideas and features, and then on top of that adds sharp, witty writing to a whimsical fantasy world. The game not only lives up to the standards of the classics that came before it, it surpasses them, and on top of that it meaningfully advances the genre as well. It's my favorite cRPG ever, and that is not an honor I bestow lightly.

Also La-Mulana. Way better than the game that inspired it, and even better than every other metroidvania-type game I have ever played (including Super Metroid and Symphony of the Night). The game's level design, physics, weapons and enemies are all top shelf to begin with, and on top of that the addition of diabolic puzzles and riddles to solve to the metroidvania formula really makes the game a blast.

[ommadawnyawn2]

Spelunky>Spelunker
Vanquish>Wild Guns
Mother 3>Mother 2
Metroid: ZM>Metroid
Circle of the Moon>SOTN
Rez>Space Harrier

That's not to say any of them makes the other obsolete though, I just prefer them to varying degrees.

[Deleted]

Aug 6, 2014 16:47:47 GMT -5 Terrifying said:

To give an example, I think that Dragon's Crown has surpassed titles like the Capcom D&D games and Golden Axe...

Seriously? The fighting mechanics are so nontechnical and underdeveloped (not to mention heavily weighted towards EXP and equipment over the player's skill) that it hardly even qualifies as a beat-em-up, and it also falls flat when stacked up against the action RPG greats like Beyond Oasis and Xanadu Next. Like the rest of Vanillaware's catalog, all it really has going for it is a lot of visual flash and polish.

[Terrifying]

Well, it has a lot of replay value I think. It has, like the Capcom D&D (which too has RPG elements) not many stages, but the many unlockables and tougher challenges make up for it. To me it's the best side scrolls beat'em up of all time.

But, to each his own

Also, great mentions. Especially La-Mulana and Spelunky.

[Vokkan]

"Modern" games to me is the casual crap that's been shoveled out for the entire last console generation, and I don't really see how those are surpassing anything (unless those "established classics" are horrible themselves, which many are). Been staring at my games collection and list of completed games for a while now but can barely come up with any games fitting this topic.

MGS definitly surpasses MG1&2, though that was 16 years ago...

Telltale's adventure games surely surpasses many oldies of the genre, thanks to the invention of logic and absence of pixel hunting. In fact I think the whole point-n-click adventure genre might be the one genre that actually has improved over the years. The evolution of most genres is basically adding one checkpoint per enemy, plus health regeneration and an experience system. You barely have to press a button for the game to tickle your brains reward system nowadays.

Aug 6, 2014 18:02:07 GMT -5 ommadawnyawn2 said:

Circle of the Moon>SOTN

I've never understood what people see in Circle of the Moon. Could you elaborate?

[Deleted]

To me, Dragon's Crown had ZERO replay value. I got too bored to finish Hard mode around the time I realized that it was just a glorified boost to the level cap. But I could easily see myself revisiting Shadow of Mystara 10 years from now. You're never grinding in Mystara because you start from a clean slate every time, but grinding is really all you're ever doing in DC. Not to mention that the fighting is so much more satisfying in SoM, with tons of intricate combos and techniques to explore that aren't braindead to pull off. Or the insanely well-hidden secrets, like the conditions for purifying the two Cursed Swords and activating the Final Strike spell.

Also, Circle of the Moon does have some aspects in which it bests SotN. Enemies are much more threatening on average, and it's not so simple to cheese your way through every challenge with overpowered magic or uberweapons. It's a much tighter and more balanced game, even if it's not anywhere near as good or memorable of an experience as Symphony.

[9inchsamurai]

Dragon's Crown is too bloated to surpass the classic beat-em-ups. Sometimes a game doesn't need a persistent character progression system, you know?

[Deleted]

Aug 6, 2014 19:18:55 GMT -5 9inchsamurai said:

Dragon's Crown is too bloated to surpass the classic beat-em-ups. Sometimes a game doesn't need a persistent character progression system, you know?

You put it much more succinctly than I could.

[cambertian]

I can already see this thread becoming a flame-war...

I'll try to present my opinion though:

- Retro City Rampage is better than what I've played of the original overhead GTAs...
- I personally can't stand a lot of supposed NES classics, but Shovel Knight is a great game.
- I'm hoping Citizens of Earth can stand on its own in a world that loves its predecessor. (It's not out yet for me to judge, though.)

[Bobinator]

I think Guacamalee is a better game than Symphony of the Night. Actually, I think it's better than... 95% of Metroidvanias I've ever played, to be honest. It's a lot of things, honestly. I appreciate how there's more to the level design than most Metroidvanias. Most of them, even Symphony of the Night, you're basically dealing with a bunch of static platforms, maybe a few spikes, with only occasional bursts of excitement like the clock tower. Guacamelee is generally a lot more engaging with the platforming, especially with how difficult it gets when you're going for all the secrets.

I also think the combat's vastly superior. Guacamelee almost feels like a Smash Brothers game, and the fact that you get so many moves that actually work in combat makes it so you're not just walking up to things and mashing the attack button.

Seriously, play Guacamelee.

[Feynman]

I really enjoyed Dragon's Crown. It's no Double Dragon Advance or Streets of Rage 2 in the pure arcade beat-em-up department, but I like it more than the Capcom D&D brawlers. The characters are an absolute joy to fight with, whether it be juggling enemies off the side of the screen as the elf or tossing monsters all over the place as the dwarf.

Circle of the Moon has its moments, but it would be a lot more fun if every single item and special ability you get wasn't at the whim of a random number generator. Seriously, having every single item and card be based entirely on random drops is beyond retarded.

[Deleted]

Aug 6, 2014 19:22:42 GMT -5 cambertian said:

I can already see this thread becoming a flame-war...

No offense, but I wasn't aware that anyone besides teenyboppers in AOL chat rooms used the term "flame" unironically.

I've had Guacamelee recommended to me several times, but I don't think I could get past the fact that the graphics and presentation suck hard. Luchadores and luchadore-related humor are too played out, man.

[Feynman]

If you feel the need to add "no offense" to something you say, that's kind of a clue that you probably shouldn't say it.

[nightdreamer]

I think Guacamelee's art style is pretty hot myself. The bright colors, the smooth animation, and the very dynamic character design... what's not to like?