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Post by TheChosen on Aug 24, 2011 21:08:19 GMT -5
(and for not opening a can of worms, can we please talk about old consoles. The 3DS already has its bashing thread, thankyouverymuch, and we dont need another one)
To quote Balasubbie on the 3DS thread
I've been thinking about this a lot every now and then. First off all, at the end of the day, its all about the games. The system design might not be great and the controller may not feel right, but still, its the games that makes us buy systems.
To me, it looks like for every system, there is something worthwhile. On the same thread where I quoted Balasubbie, Jason mentioned 3DO and Jaguar. While both failed quite badly, and Jaguar had a quite weird controller, both have some very playable titles. Jaguar for example:
* Aliens Vs Predator
* Rayman
* Doom
* Wolfenstein 3D
* Cannon Fodder
* Tempest 2000
And others. As for 3DO, just check out the HG101 podcast episode where they talk about 3DO. There they drop bunch of good games for it, and If you're not happy enough, I can point out some more.
Again, it seems that every system is worthwhile. Even the friggin CD-I has one game I'd love to play on it; Litil Divil. And I'd honestly want to play the Zelda games on it too for the curiosity factor. Same goes with Virtual Boy which while is probably the best real example of bad console design, has best ratio of good games.
The only, really really bad system that has no worthwhile games whatsoever that I can think of is Game.com, a horrible Tiger Electronics device that has touchscreen and games which look like a mix of Gameboy and cellphone games.
Those consoles have bad games too, but thats only natural. Every console has its share of bad games and I dont think it affects any less the enjoyment of playing good games.
What do you think?
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Post by Ike on Aug 24, 2011 21:14:58 GMT -5
I own a Virtual Boy. I purchased it for $10 when Toys 'r Us was clearancing them out. The Virtual Boy is a bad console.
There's some good software on it. I like Wario World or whatever it is. But god damn the thing is maddening to play. The controller is comfortable except for having the power source attached to the back of it, making it stupidly heavy. It only displays in two colors, neither of which are appealing to the eye. You also have to keep your face crammed into a dark eyepiece the entire time to play. The fucker takes SIX AA batteries which it drains in a matter of minutes. Its design is completely nonsensical to the point of comedy, which is why it held center space on my shelf (when I had room for it) because it was a good conversation piece. Something to laugh over.
It's bad.
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Post by Mr. Saturn on Aug 24, 2011 21:25:07 GMT -5
In fairness, the Virtual Boy has gone on to have a bit of a life within homebrew circles.
It's such an open question, beyond the obvious. The Dreamcast and the 360 are bad consoles, hardware-wise. Between'em, they've got an astronomical failure rate. I mean, they're both exercises in how willingly a gamer forgives in return for awesome games.
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Post by Shinigami on Aug 24, 2011 21:28:08 GMT -5
Just out of curiosity, what did the Playstation do that the 3DO and CD-I did not? Was it the price? Did it have a lot of games on launch? What made it succeed where those failed?
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Post by Mr. Saturn on Aug 24, 2011 21:33:08 GMT -5
Just out of curiosity, what did the Playstation do that the 3DO and CD-I did not? Was it the price? Did it have a lot of games on launch? What made it succeed where those failed? Sony marketed it just right. That's all, the took the dissension that Sega bred against Nintendo and ran with it, selling it as some sort of chic lifestyle accessory. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 24, 2011 21:40:07 GMT -5
Just out of curiosity, what did the Playstation do that the 3DO and CD-I did not? Was it the price? Did it have a lot of games on launch? What made it succeed where those failed? It couldn't have been the speed of the CD drives. I'm pretty sure that the PS1 and 3DO were the same in that respect, if not the CD-i, as well. It all boils down to developer support, though. Consider the Dreamcast. EA didn't develop for it because they knew the PS2 would slaughter it upon release. It's a similar situation with a lot of these other also-rans. |
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Post by Weasel on Aug 24, 2011 21:46:53 GMT -5
To me, it looks like for every system, there is something worthwhile. On the same thread where I quoted Balasubbie, Jason mentioned 3DO and Jaguar. While both failed quite badly, and Jaguar had a quite weird controller, both have some very playable titles. Jaguar for example: * Aliens Vs Predator * Rayman * Doom * Wolfenstein 3D * Cannon Fodder * Tempest 2000 Of which only Aliens Vs Predator is a console exclusive, and Rayman's Jaguar version is, from what I've been told, generally considered the best version. Doom's Jag port is incomplete (no music), Wolf3D's has some notable enhancements, like the new weapon sprites and Mac version enemy graphics, but uses the inferior Mac version levels. I haven't played the Jag version of Cannon Fodder in years, so I couldn't compare it to the Amiga version, but it's got to be better than the Genesis and PC versions. And as far as Tempest 2000 goes, okay, yeah, the Jaguar probably had the best version. Incidentally, Litil Divil has a PC version and I think either a CDTV or CD32 version. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 24, 2011 21:53:01 GMT -5
Yeah, that's half of my problem with the Jaguar. Most of the games people tout as being a system seller were already on other consoles, many of which were better than the Jaguar releases. They didn't have to contend with that mastadon of a controller, at the very least.
I'll have to look into that 3DO podcast, though. Maybe they mention something other than "The Horde".
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Post by kitten on Aug 24, 2011 21:56:34 GMT -5
TheChosen, you really need to separate hardware and software in this case. Old consoles hardly had important features, so the software (the games) made the argument as to which was "better." Now with constant multiports, digital distribution and online gaming, things have severely changed and the hardware is more important than ever.
A console can still be bad hardware with or without good software. Despite the DS's excellent library of games, I'd argue that, compared to its competitor at the time, it was a bad console. Taking its library into account, I consider it the better to own of the two, but there are extremely few of my favorite DS games I don't think would have been better on the PSP.
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Post by X-pert74 on Aug 24, 2011 22:00:21 GMT -5
As far as the consoles I've played go, I don't know if I'd consider any of them bad. I've heard terrible things about systems like the Jaguar and CD-i, but also some decent things too. I've never played them though, so I really can't speak from experience.
Probably my least favorite consoles I've used so far were the PS3 and Gamecube, even though I've still loved games on both (Valkyria Chronicles and Paper Mario: The Thousand Year Door, in particular). I haven't gotten very many games for either system, mainly because I didn't have much of an interest in doing so. I had no interest in most of the Gamecube's games during its lifespan, although I've gained some interest in the system in retrospect. And for the PS3, its games are either multiplatform which I can play on my 360, or they're exclusives that don't happen to appeal to me. I can't say that either system is horrible though or has no redeeming qualities.
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Post by kyouki on Aug 24, 2011 22:12:46 GMT -5
I had a Jaguar when I was a kid!
Aliens vs Predator is amazing, the only problem with it is the poor framerate.
Cybermorph was a great pack-in game.
Also had a very excellent port of Raiden, with a level that is exclusive to the Jaguar port (great music on this stage).
Finally, best version of Dragon: The Bruce Lee Story. Not a bad game once you get used to it, and it's got some amazing graphics and a fantastic soundtrack.
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Post by dooz on Aug 24, 2011 22:39:19 GMT -5
I own a Virtual Boy. I purchased it for $10 when Toys 'r Us was clearancing them out. The Virtual Boy is a bad console. There's some good software on it. I like Wario World or whatever it is. But god damn the thing is maddening to play. The controller is comfortable except for having the power source attached to the back of it, making it stupidly heavy. It only displays in two colors, neither of which are appealing to the eye. You also have to keep your face crammed into a dark eyepiece the entire time to play. The fucker takes SIX AA batteries which it drains in a matter of minutes. Its design is completely nonsensical to the point of comedy, which is why it held center space on my shelf (when I had room for it) because it was a good conversation piece. Something to laugh over. It's bad. I got a Virtual Boy when it first came out. Telroboxer was the only good game. |
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Post by Ryu the Grappler on Aug 25, 2011 0:01:40 GMT -5
Just out of curiosity, what did the Playstation do that the 3DO and CD-I did not? Was it the price? Did it have a lot of games on launch? What made it succeed where those failed? It was easy to develop games for (especially 3D games), which attracted many 3rd-party developers from the get-go (mainly Namco, who were Sega's chief rival in the arcade). Ridge Racer might not seem like much nowadays, but it was a huge killer-app in Japan (which explains Kaz Hirai's odd affection for the game a few years back). |
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Post by derboo on Aug 25, 2011 1:01:20 GMT -5
Just out of curiosity, what did the Playstation do that the 3DO and CD-I did not? Was it the price? Did it have a lot of games on launch? What made it succeed where those failed? I'd also argue that at the time a console would have had be rooted in Japan to have any success. Western developers were still pretty much focused on traditionally home computer games. FPS were on the rise, Point 'n click adventures going strong, even traditional WRPGs still alive. It couldn't have been the speed of the CD drives. I'm pretty sure that the PS1 and 3DO were the same in that respect, if not the CD-i, as well. It all boils down to developer support, though. Consider the Dreamcast. EA didn't develop for it because they knew the PS2 would slaughter it upon release. It's a similar situation with a lot of these other also-rans. Self-fulfilling prophecy much? |
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Post by wyrdwad on Aug 25, 2011 1:06:50 GMT -5
The Jaguar itself arguably may not have been a bad console, but the Jaguar CD apparently was. If you watch either the Angry Video Game Nerd's review of the Jaguar, or Spoony's review of the Highlander game on Jaguar CD, it seems it's one of the most poorly-made, death-prone console add-ons ever created. According to Spoony's review, they aren't just prone to failure, they're prone to failure in about 5 different ways. Seems like the sort of thing that's almost guaranteed to stop working on you shortly after you buy it.
I'm also surprised no one's said anything about the N-Gage yet. I owned an N-Gage for a while... and can say from first-hand experience that it not only sucked as a handheld gaming system, it also sucked as a phone! And mine was the improved QD model -- I hate to think what the original was like! (:
Basically, its controls were LUDICROUSLY stiff (to the point of being almost unusable, and at the very least LITERALLY PAINFUL to use for any prolonged period of time), you actually HAD to have a SIM card in the thing in order to even play games on it at all (despite the fact that it was billed as a handheld gaming system AND a phone, not just a phone that could play games), you had to remove the battery in order to change out game cards, games would often randomly reset during play (at least, on my model)... and phone-wise, the sound quality sucked, and yep -- side-talkin'! You guys remember that meme, right? (:
The games I demoed on it were Sonic N, Pandemonium and Xanadu Next, and... actually, they weren't toooo bad. All three were ports, though -- the first two were direct ports, and the third was a simplified and entirely crappified version of a Falcom PC game. Xanadu Next is the reason I bought the thing, but it turned out to be the worst of the three to play. And while the other two were fine, I'd rather play them on their original consoles, or on my PSP/PS3 or Wii via PSN/Virtual Console.
I've heard some of the N-Gage's original titles were pretty OK, but there were very, very few that weren't inferior ports, and certainly nothing worth buying the system for.
-Tom
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