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Post by Bobinator on Aug 28, 2018 3:16:07 GMT -5
I honestly wouldn't really describe SoR as all that gritty, really. I mean, there's a handful of stages that could be described as such, sure, but there are plenty of stages that actually look pretty pleasant, I'd say. People are probably associating the series with stuff like this:  When there's plenty more examples of this:    Also, not gonna lie. I usually don't like calling people "entitled", but since yesterday boy howdy am I gonna start walking that back. |
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Post by Bumpyroad on Aug 28, 2018 3:29:12 GMT -5
Yeah, what's up with that one? After promising so many things, they're now aiming for system's 30'th anniversary release, while giving out refunds for those who ask. |
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Post by JoeQ on Aug 28, 2018 3:59:28 GMT -5
My only complaint so far is that Garcia/Galsia doesn't look enough like the dipshit that he is. I'm kinda curious, what you thought of Sonic Mania and Dragon's Trap toei ? |
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Post by GamerL on Aug 28, 2018 4:35:48 GMT -5
I don't know what everyone's complaining about, looks rad to me.
If devs are going to do 2D I prefer this way since they almost never get pixel art right anymore, pixel art games today look like if you play a 8/16 bit game on an emulator without any scanline filters, ie not correct and ugly.
If you're gonna do 2D do what wasn't possible in the 8/16 bit game, if I wanted to play a 8/16 bit game... I'd play an actual 8/16 bit game.
There are exceptions, like the recent Bloodstained spin off, which I haven't actually played yet but it looks way nicer to me than most modern pixel art throwback games.
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Post by alphex on Aug 28, 2018 5:06:39 GMT -5
I honestly wouldn't really describe SoR as all that gritty, really. I mean, there's a handful of stages that could be described as such, sure, but there are plenty of stages that actually look pretty pleasant, I'd say. In SOR2, mostly. But the iconic first level is still set at night. But yeah, I'm much more of a fan of Streets of Rage 1's atmosphere and setting than 2's. But don't get me wrong - I'm still optimistic that I'm gonna enjoy the game either way, it's just... the series means something else to everybody and to me it was never as daylight-ish as Double Dragon or Final Fight. I really hope it's gonna feel like a night time brawl (again, all the animated stuff in the trailer is spot on with the setting). But also agreed, the Youtube comments are... yes, it's Youtube, but most of them are "bring Yuzo back or don't bother" or "you better bring all these characters I'm about to list or it's not Streets of Rage to me". Then again, it's been 24 years and the original trilogy is held in insanely high regard. People are gonna have insane expectations. (Seeing how Sega cancelled a bunch of attempts, they probably also don't feel like wasting the IP.) Yeah, what's up with that one? After promising so many things, they're now aiming for system's 30'th anniversary release, while giving out refunds for those who ask. Any plans of ports, gameplay videos, anything more than just words? |
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Post by 🧀Son of Suzy Creamcheese🧀 on Aug 28, 2018 5:26:11 GMT -5
This looks like typical outsourced trash, with that horrible Western cartoon look typical of those goofy modern revivals that completely miss the point. As a fan of the original series and '90s beat-'em-ups in general, I'm giving it the world's hardest pass. I do feel the crappy western adobe illustrator art misses the point. The original games had quite a grounded look to them. They were dark and gritty. It had a pre-Giuliani new York feel to it. Thus looks like a typical Saturday morning cartoon or pretty much any other low tier indie games. I just really hate lazy adobe illustrator art. Surely you guys are familiar with the Dragon's Trap remake? The graphics don't remind me of SoR either, but that doesn't mean the game looks bad or cheap. It looks pretty awesome in its own right. And surely if the gameplay's up to snuff (which I'm sure it is) you can excuse the change from one awesome art style to the next? |
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Post by retr0gamer on Aug 28, 2018 6:19:23 GMT -5
It suited Dragon's Trap. It doesn't really suit SoR.
Lazy Adobe Illustrator art just gets on my nerves. There's no excuse for it when you have games like Hollow Knight and Vanillaware's output (who use an in house vector art package but it's the same principle as illustrator). From my time in the industry they just teach undergrads this stuff because it's cheap, easy to do and the aesthetic 'sells' as it's what most successful mobile games use. So you end up with bad art being pushed and promoted because it's seen as more sellable while it's near impossible to get a good artist.
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Post by Bumpyroad on Aug 28, 2018 7:04:57 GMT -5
After promising so many things, they're now aiming for system's 30'th anniversary release, while giving out refunds for those who ask. Any plans of ports, gameplay videos, anything more than just words? And not much else beyond that. It suited Dragon's Trap. It doesn't really suit SoR. Kinda Comix Zone~ish |
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Post by toei on Aug 28, 2018 7:08:55 GMT -5
This. It's not "another awesome artstyle", it's terrible pseudo-cartoon garbage. It's anti-style. I hate it. JoeQ I'm not interested in either, although by most (all?) accounts, Sonic Mania gets it right. I think Dragon's Trap was well received, as well? The look isn't as much an issue since it was always bright and colorful, though it's still corny compared to the original. I'm not interested in remakes and revivals, especially when done by other people in a completely different time and place. Bobinator That beach and that backstreet sunrise are still gritty, in their own way, even though they're beautiful. They're both 16-bit interpretations of street-level realism. Also, notice literally none of those screenshots take place in full light. GamerL Scanline filters are mostly terrible, except some of the really subtle ones. You never actually saw those lines on CRT TVs unless you were sitting too close. Pixel art without filters is great when done right. |
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Post by Apollo Chungus on Aug 28, 2018 7:51:42 GMT -5
This is insane. I know the gaming industry has been surprising with the number of magical unicorn games that nobody thought would ever be a thing (The Last Guardian, Doom 4 (and 5!), Shenmue III, Final Fantasy Versus XIII/XV, Devil May Cry 5...), but I always figured that Streets of Rage 4 would be one of those mythical games that could never possibly happen. There had been so many rejected pitches, and it never felt like SEGA wanted to continue the series, that I thought it wasn't meant to be.
But here we are: a new Streets of Rage made by the teams behind the Dragon's Trap remake and Streets of Fury, daring to call itself Streets of Rage 4. I actually shook my head and exclaimed with shock that it couldn't be true, like an anime villain about to suffer defeat. But it's true, and I'm so goddamn happy.
I guess that's why I don't really get some of the disdain that folks are throwing at the game; perhaps I'm still in shock and can't look at it more objectively. I want to try and address a couple of points that came up, if only to get an extra perspective in there and to hear what other folks think.
"It's not a proper SEGA game, since it's being outsourced."
I've seen this come up, and is the criticism I'm the most mixed on. On the one hand, I do get the fear of a Japanese company outsourcing to a Western studio that might not get it (remember when Konami did that with every Silent Hill after 4?). However, I feel like SEGA seems to have had a good track with this sort of thing lately, and there's another point that might be more relevant: SEGA's general reluctance to revisit old IPs.
This is something that SEGA's been notorious for in recent years, and I think it's because there's a concern that most of these games might not do well enough to justify production costs. In their mind, the manpower and resources used to make a new game based on an old series in-house could be better spent on the latest title in a popular series. I don't like that idea, but I can at least get their logic. With that in mind, I think outsourcing these new takes on old IPs is a good idea that both saves them the manpower for more viable ventures, and puts them in the hands of people who know what they're doing (case in point: Sonic Mania was technically outsourced, but the team know the series much better than Sonic Team seems to).
If the alternative is nothing, then I'm more than happy for SEGA to outsource this one.
"I hate the new look, it doesn't suit SOR."
I disagree with this one a good deal, but I think I know why this seems to be the most vocal point. I think it's because Streets of Rage has never changed its look. It never reached consoles past the Mega Drive, so it didn't have to jump into the third dimension or get higher resolution sprites, like so many other series from that era. Even the really well-liked SOR Remake that came out years ago stuck to those old graphics. Everyone who knows Streets of Rage knows it as a series with 16-bit pixel art graphics, and it's hard to adjust to that change after 25+ years.
That said, I don't think these are bad or lazy*. It's a new look, but I think it can work for this series. From what little we've been able to see (three very short gameplay clips and a bunch of screenshots), I think they've done a good job at capturing the sense of a lived-in, dirty city - maybe in a more tangible way than the originals, if I'm being honest. The designs are a pretty good take on the original sprites, and I do like the graphic touch of giving them black outlines to better stand out from the environments. I'm not totally into the look, mind you, but I'm gonna be optimistic about it for now.
*Also, can we stop calling things lazy? Unless there's actual proof that the creator wasn't properly doing their job or there's heaps of missed potential in whatever they're doing, using "lazy" as a criticism is disingenuous nonsense that implies that the creator doesn't care. It's insulting to the creator, since you're assuming intentions that may not exist, and is more often than not just dressing up the fact that you're not a fan of what they're doing.
"Yuzo Koshiro or bust!"
I'm somewhat mixed on this. Of course, I'd like Yuzo Koshiro to come back and do the music for this, considering how influential and iconic his work on the original games were. But I'm not going to be too mad if he's unable to work on it for whatever reason. That's fair enough, and I imagine there are plenty of artists who have taken inspiration from Koshiro's music and will be able to deliver a good soundtrack (maybe we'll get a SOR equivalent of Sonic Mania's Tee Lopes if we're extra lucky).
Honestly, the only thing I really want when it comes to the sound is for the sound effects to be really good. One of the reasons I consider SOR2 to be the best game is because of how fantastic its sounds are. Every punch, every attack with a weapon, every scream; it all sounds just right and makes the fighting feel way more visceral and impactful than it otherwise would be (I remember actually wincing and grunting with pain when I got a particularly bad punch to the gut in a recent playthrough). As long as they can nail the sound design, I'll be plenty happy.
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Post by ZenithianHero on Aug 28, 2018 9:41:08 GMT -5
I understand the tone change but calling this lazy art is just unfair. Lizardcube's animation work on Dragon's Trap had a lot of effort and the backgrounds in SoR4 already look detailed. Check out this video on their process on the previous game. Yeah, what's up with that one? Also, please do some kickass Streets of Rage merch, Sega. I'd buy a shirt (unless the design sucks ass). Sega's official store. Maybe they will update with new ones later. Right now it is Altered Beast anniversary. shop.sega.com/collections/streets-of-rage |
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Post by Bumpyroad on Aug 28, 2018 10:23:28 GMT -5
I'm not interested in remakes and revivals, especially when done by other people in a completely different time and place. I really wanna see the first screens of Battletoads one, but at the same time already quite sceptical about it. |
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Post by alphex on Aug 28, 2018 14:51:42 GMT -5
Damn, none of these are cool looking. And the soundtrack doesn't ship to Europe. |
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Post by Ike on Aug 28, 2018 15:03:13 GMT -5
Everybody on SA was bitching about the art style. I think it looks pretty good, but I also really love the way Dragon's Trap looks. The only thing that bugs me is that Axel looks 20 years older (I appreciate that they gave him a strongfat gut) but Blaze looks exactly the same.
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Post by 1983parrothead on Aug 28, 2018 15:48:03 GMT -5
When it comes to belt-scroll beat 'em ups in Japan, perhaps Technos Japan's (now Arc System Works') Kunio-kun and Capcom's Final Fight are mentioned by most gamers there and even used to compare later games in the genre. Outside of Japan, especially in USA, Technos Japan/Arc System Works' Double Dragon (especially its console ports and console exclusives) and especially Sega's Streets of Rage (2) are mentioned the most and are often used to compare other beat 'em ups even ones with names like SNK's Burning Fight and Tatsumi's Big Fight that were actually meant to cash-in on Capcom's Final Fight. I'm not sure if Kunio-kun, Double Dragon and Final Fight are mentioned as much as Streets of Rage in USA. Me: Ever heard of Double Dragon? Random Guy: No. Me: Final Fight? Random Guy: No. Me: Streets of Rage? Random Guy: Oh yeah! I used to play that game some time ago! Although one guy told me Streets of Rage in Japan (as Bare Knuckle) is popular just for the soundtrack albums. Despite that and Axel Stone's appearance in Project Ă— Zone 2, I'm still unsure if the series is as popular there as in USA where fans are like in this random catalog shortly after the first game's release:  |
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